Kia Weatherspoon

Stacy Shoemaker Rauen: So where did you grow up?

Kia Weatherspoon: I grew up in Portsmouth, Virginia. It’s known for Virginia Beach, Hampton Roads area, three hours south of Washington, DC.

SSR: Were you always creative as a kid?

KW: Was I always creative? I was a ballet dancer. I was a ballet dancer. I went to Thaddeus Hayes Dance in Portsmouth, Virginia, but that was probably the most creative that I was, from a motion, movement perspective, but I don’t have any vivid memories of drawing, or anything artistic, but just dance, that’s it.

SSR: Were your parents creative? Was there any early influences that you might not have realized?

KW: No. Okay. All right. Let me see. All right. I always like to be just super transparent, my dad was an alcoholic, and an electrician. And my mom was an educator. She was that educator that you wanted to have as a kid. And I think anything creative, I remember, now I’m going to date myself, but that’s all right, it would be like holidays, and I would go to school with her, and she would do these bulletin boards. You remember bulletin boards?

SSR: Yeah, 100%.

KW: It had the scallop borders, and it was Black History Month, and Christmas. I would go with her to help her do her holiday doors.

SSR: It was a big thing.

KW: I can’t pinpoint one real thing in my childhood.

SSR: What then drew you to go to school for design?

KW: We have a little bit of time, let me be brief. I will say this, it wasn’t even necessarily how I grew up as a child, but I think there were two big moments of my life where I realize space matters. I think the first one happened when my brother was incarcerated. My brother was incarcerated when I was in high school, and he would end up being incarcerated for 15 years. And it would start my family on this journey of going in and out of prison facilities. And what I do remember vividly is the first prison I ever walked into. And that immediate reaction was, I don’t want to be here, no one should be here. Sans all the things of why the people were there, it was just a visceral feeling like, this isn’t the way people should traverse through spaces. And year over year, I would think about it from the perspective of other people, me as a sibling, a parent, a grandparent, a child, the guards, and then finally the men. And I just felt like it was something about the space, and I would just sit with that. I would sit with it. So that was moment one.

Then I went to college to study dance, and I didn’t get financial aid. And I said, “I’m going to join the military,” so I joined the military. I joined the United States Air Force in 2001. And I got to my first duty station in July, and then September 11th happened. I was on my first of four deployments to the Middle East. It was at Al Udeid Air Base in Doha, Qatar, and it was at the height of the war, so it was a bare base, and it was in Tent City. I was in this tent with about 14 other women, and I needed some privacy, and I didn’t have it, so I took some sheets, I hung it from the top of the tent, and I made three sheet walls around my cot. That was the first space I ever created, and I balled like a baby for 15 minutes. It was something about how that space, it healed me, it brought me comfort, it brought me solace. And I would do that on three more deployments. When I got out of the military, I was like, I want to do this thing where I create spaces for people. And that’s how I got into interior design.

SSR: That’s amazing.

KW: It is the most roundabout way …

SSR: But a very profound way.

KW: Looking back now, and I think about the body of work that I’ve done, it’s all about making sure everyone has access to elevated spaces. But it’s also like, man, why didn’t I take notice to my environment as a kid? Why didn’t the low-income community that I grew up in, why wasn’t an elevated space that would create this visceral reaction to me? I’m not saying that … I came to design from a place of trauma, so I don’t know, but that’s how I got here. That’s how I got to interior design.

SSR: Maybe because it was considered a normal? Because I think too, my husband … We can cut this part if we want, but my husband was a helicopter pilot in the Navy, and I remember the first time he took me on the ship, and he was like, “Here’s this quarters, and then here’s the officer quarters.” I’m like, “Well, they’re not getting any better, it’s terrible.” But it was just assumed that’s what it was, right?

KW: Yes, absolutely.

SSR: No one had questioned it.

KW: Absolutely. No one questioned, and that’s my favorite question to ask, could you tell me why? And then ask it like seven more times. I just was always, in hindsight, I was always questioning, but why? Why wasn’t I met with great design? Why, why, why? And it was these two extremes, but I think it’s also kind of … this is going to sound hokey, but it’s also, which makes me certain that this was my purpose. What I get to do is something bigger than myself. Oh my God, do not make it emotional. So it’s purposeful, this thing that I do, and the space that I get to do it in.

SSR: Your brother being incarcerated, what did that do to your family, and to you?

KW: I think why I don’t mind having this conversation is because I think people need to see leaders as humans first. I remember, a couple years ago, I got really hardcore into therapy, and the first words out of my mouth was, “He needed everything, so I could need nothing.” So for a big portion of my career, if I was successful, I was seen, I was acknowledged. So I leaned into that being acknowledged in this success. I love what I do, but at a certain point, it became this validation that I was seeking. Because coming from a quasi-two parent household, with an educator and an electrician, sometimes addict, in a commonwealth state, we didn’t have a lot of resources, so that put my family’s focus a lot on my brother, a lot. We are a tight-knit, little foursome, but being a child of an addict, I was often overlooked.

My mom, she worked tirelessly, and I saw her work ethic. And I saw the way she cared for others in everything that she did, she was that type of educator. But it also taught me empathy for all people, and you cannot judge one base off of sole actions, you have to see them in the capacity of who they are. So it caused a lot of angst, but humanity and love. That’s how it was. It was a defining thing for our family, but we leaned into it the best way that we knew how. It also got me to where I’m at today.

SSR: Probably put some drive and-

KW: But it was intense. It’s my story, I never shy away from it.

SSR: Are you guys still close?

KW: Oh, girl, yes.

SSR: Okay, good.

KW: Oh my God. Again, it’s Karen, Kody, Kia and Nick. My dad’s the only outlier with the N, but we are a tight family. Oh, now it’s my nephew, Kaden too, with a K. We are a very close family. He calls me sissy, I call him brudder.

SSR: Aw.

KW: Yeah, it’s cute.

SSR: So cute.

KW: It’s cute.

SSR: Are they all still in the Virginia area?

KW: My dad is in Portsmouth, Virginia. My mom and my brother are in Charlotte, with my nephew.

SSR: So going back to the military, what were you doing in the military? What was your role there?

KW: So my job in military was, I actually really enjoyed it, it was Aircrew Life Support. So if the plane was to crash, anything that would save your life, we had to inspect it and maintain it, which means we had to go where the planes went at war time. My aircraft was a KC-135, nothing kicks ass without tanker gas. It was at McConnell Air Force Base. That was my job, I maintained lifesaving equipment for four and a half years on active duty, and into the Guard and Reserve. I think what I loved about it, or what I gleaned from it, was that was the first time I really realized the value of attention to detail. Everything had to be calibrated to a specific level, and maintained on a schedule, so it was really intense. I had a lot of fun too, don’t get me wrong, but it was a lot about maintaining something so small for others. I always got from it, it was bigger than myself, my small role in making sure the pilots and the aircrew was safe.

SSR: Did you ever have to use it?

KW: No.

SSR: Good.

KW: Thankfully. Our aircraft, it was war adjacent, where they had to be within 45 minutes of the fighter jets. But again, one of the best experiences I’ve ever done in my life.

SSR: That’s amazing. Even on four deployments.

KW: Well, it’s this movie that’s like, “At band camp …”, my service was like, “Oh, that one time I was deployed …” I turned 21 at a dry base in … Where was I? In Bahrain. So a dry base means there’s no alcohol. There is no alcohol, but the pilots, their wives would ship in alcohol in Gatorade and Listerine bottles. My birthday is the day after Halloween, so November 1st, I had the best birthday party on a dry base. It was this big costume party, but it was so much about family, comradery. I learned tolerance. It was glorious.

SSR: So then did you come back and go get your master’s then?

KW: Okay. So I came back from the military, I knew at this point I wanted to do design, but I was coming from a really technical point of reference. I did not think I was creative, or an artist. Now I’m about to really date myself. I got an associate’s degree in AutoCAD.

SSR: Perfect.

KW: Because I was like, “Well, what’s the program they use?” And it was very tech focused. So from the Community College of Philadelphia, I got my associates, and that’s the first thing I did. That’s when I got the first bug in the space of hospitality. I got a job at a hotel management company as a receptionist. And they had this war room right outside the reception desk, and I was like, “I’m going to do that. That’s what I’m going to go to school for.” So I got the associates, and then it was time to get this bachelor’s degree. And then I ended up at my second favorite place in the world, Moore College of Art and Design. It’s an all women’s art and design college. And I stumbled across it walking to go to another college.

SSR: Oh really?

KW: Yeah. It’s an art college, and it had a gallery on the street level of 19th and Race. I just pop in there, and I’m just like, “Oh, okay.” And I’m like, “Oh, this is a college?” I applied, and I got in.

SSR: Amazing.

KW: It was very easy … not easy, but it was happenstance. And it was my first day of school, and I was like, “Where are the boys?” And it was an all women’s college.

SSR: Did you not realize that until got there?

KW: No.

SSR: You’re like, “Oops, my bad.”

KW: But that ended up being one of the things I loved about it. And I tell that story because, at every juncture at this point, I know I want to do this tangible career path, but I’m not yet considering myself an artist, a creative, or a designer. I just know I want to do this thing. At an art and design college, you take every art history known to man, and you see all the things in the books. I did a study abroad in Florence, and I remember I was in Rome and I saw Michelangelo’s Pieta, and I just started bawling. I just started crying, and that was the first time I felt like a creative and an artist outside of myself. And that’s how I got my formal education.

SSR: What did you take away from those years?

KW: Okay. So story number one … I’m all about the story.

SSR: I love stories.

KW: So all of our teachers were these renowned artisans. So it was this artist, his name was Frank Hyder, and we were taking basic drawing. And he has everyone, on the easel, draw lines across the paper with whatever tool they have, and I drew my lines down the paper. He’s coming around, and he’s telling everyone a little something, and he gets to me and he goes, “You’re drawing every line two and three times. You’re not trusting yourself.” And I was like, “You don’t know me, bro.” I was a sassy little 19-year-old. But there was truth in it, so that was lesson one.

And then my department chair in my interior design program, her name was Margaret Leahy. We were space planning, and we had our trace, and our Sharpies, and our microns, and I’m drawing and I’m space planning, and she’s like, “You’re making every line so tight and sharp. Use a thick Sharpie, make bolder moves, nothing’s permanent.” And I was like, “Okay.” These are the two critical things … Yes, I learned my tangible skills to graduate and get my degree, but it was the intangible about being in a truly inclusive environment for women. And I was a second careerist, like I had whole gone to war, and now I’m in this art and design space. I remember I had this classmate, she sat next to me, and she saw my work three semesters later, she’s like, “Kia, did you draw that?” And I was like, “Yeah.” She was like, “You’ve gotten so much better.” I was like …

SSR: Thank you.

KW: But it was that type of support, which could have been competitive, but it was just encouragement. That’s what I got from that institution. I adore that place.

SSR: That’s amazing. And I love that you were just walking by and you’re like, “I’ll check it out.”

KW: It was, “So, what’s in here?” But again, it’s purpose. I was supposed to be there.

SSR: Did you go on from there to get your master’s, or did you take a-

KW: What did I do then? I got that degree. And then I moved to DC for a guy. I’m still single, obviously that didn’t work out.

SSR: A little blip.

KW: Just a little whoopsies. Then I got my first job in the multifamily space. In doing that, I started to get my master’s, because I always knew I wanted to teach. My mom’s a teacher, my aunt’s a teacher, my mom has two other siblings who were teachers, so education and teaching runs in our blood. So I knew at some point I was going to teach, and that’s why I got my master’s degree, so I can teach in the future at the collegiate level. That was it.

SSR: And you do teach now.

KW: I do. I do. I get to teach now fulltime.

SSR: You’re at SCAD.

KW: I am.

SSR: And what are you learning from your students these days? And what are you teaching them? What’s the give and take?

KW: Okay. This is what I’m learning from them, they are so curious, and they want to get it. And I think that level of openness, and being receptive, is really critical in the creative path. I think they are also a lot more empathetic and human based, which I’m like, “Oh, we need that.” What am I teaching them? Showing up as exactly who you are is enough. You don’t have to conform. I’m teaching them, ask why, and then ask why again, and be like, “No, no, no.” Ask the why for understanding.

I’m teaching them to use a thick Sharpie. I’m teaching them scale and balance. That it’s not about the program, design is about people. There’s a tangible thing you have to do, but you also have to real realize that interior design is the greatest form of empathy in practice, you just have to lead with it. And to do that, you have to see the whole person, not, well, it’s this demographic, it’s this, it’s this. That’s what I’m teaching them. It’s fun.

SSR: You’ve taught at other schools as well.

KW: I have. I taught at Marymount University very early on. I was an adjunct faculty there. That wasn’t the right timing for me in my career to teach.

SSR: Just because you didn’t have enough …

KW: Real talk, it was a bunch of privileged white women in the graduate level, who were constantly challenging everything I said, because they went to some baby Ivy League school. And I was just like, “I don’t need this.” I was in the thick of my business, it was still early on. It didn’t feel good for me.

SSR: Right. It wasn’t helping.

KW: It wasn’t. Yeah. And I was really eager to show them. And it wasn’t receptive. So that was that bout. And I do a lot of speaking at different universities, so I think it was like, “Maybe I give back in another way, I don’t have to be in the classroom.” And then it was January 2020. God that feels like forever ago, but that was the start of the pandemic.

SSR: We lost a year and a half of our lives.

KW: It’s like that show … What is it? It’s still on Netflix. It’s called Manifest, where they’re on the plane and they’re gone for five years. Anyway. So I go speak at VCU. I go give my little spiel, my dog and pony show, and this black girl, she raises her hand and she goes, “I needed to see you today.” And I go, “What do you mean?” And she says, “I have been struggling with staying in the program, because my teachers don’t look like me, my classmates don’t look like me. You’re the first black designer I’ve ever seen.” And this is in 2020. And she’s like, “I needed to hear your story.” I was like, “Okay.”

And I think in that moment … I’ve always talked about the value of diversity in design. I felt like I needed to show up in a different way. Popping in once a year, maybe that wasn’t enough. In academia, and designers of color, they need to see people who look like them at every touch point. It just so happened, a couple months later, they asked me if I wanted to do an adjunct position. This was in Richmond, and I was in DC, so I would … It was in COVID, so it was all virtual. And then we did a hybrid. But that’s how I got back into academia in 2020.

SSR: How do you continue to create a more diverse environment through design, through architecture, through development, through everything that touches what you do?

KW: It’s so funny, there’s this man, his name is Jack Travis, he’s a designer, and he teaches at all the schools in New York, like literally all the schools. And he was telling me one time, “For us to see real change in our industry around diversity, we have a pipeline issue. And it has to start in K through 12.” And for me, and the work that I’ve done at Determined by Design, it also has to start in our communities, this notion of seeing elevated design at every touchpoint. So now I’m just kind of coming at it from practice, and also academia. Because I have students now, who are like, “You’re the first black professor I’ve ever seen.” It’s just so full-time. It’s just a disconnect for them to see someone who’s kind of made it in the classroom.

SSR: Right. Which is eye-opening that that’s still today the case.

KW: Yeah. I know. And I think there’s also this, if I was to lay the portfolios of my students across on the table, and say, “Which would you hire?” There is a disconnect in skill level between, sometimes, the output of my student of color and non. And I think it has to do with the fact that, not all, but some of them can’t connect with their white professors in a way. Because a lot of what I’m hearing from my students is like, “I finally feel comfortable talking to a professor.” And that’s an intangible thing that maybe they haven’t been able to identify it, but now that they see someone who looks like them, there’s a level of comfort. And that’s not specific to SCAD, that’s just academia. And if you get into interior design academia, it is just the landscape of our industry, and specifically academia, for our students.

SSR: And for Determined by Design, I know design equity has been something that you’ve been … it’s been your founding principle, and what you’ve been focused on. So tell us, first, why did you want … That’s your firm, Determined by Design. First of all, why did you want to start it? And second of all, what did you want to create?

KW: This question is … It’s funny, because I tell people, if you would’ve asked me what I wanted to be growing up, I never wanted to be a business owner. I was a solid C student.

SSR: Look at you now

KW: Hello. Cs get degrees.

SSR: And awards.

KW: And awards, right? I’m going to answer your question. But also, the thing that I’m teaching my students, it’s not about the A. It’s about doing the work. And I always say, “Hey, guys, I never got As. Your 4.0 doesn’t matter if you don’t do the work, and you don’t see people.” Why did I start Determined by Design? I think you and I both know our industry burnout culture is real. Burnout culture is real. And leadership who values their people, we’re still kind of on the fence about that. So I started my firm because I was burnt out. And then I was like, “All right, I could go work for another firm,” but I really wanted to work for a place that had leadership that looked like me. And I was like, “Anywhere? DC, Maryland, Virginia? Anywhere?” So I was like, “I’m going to start my own business.”

It was from a place of wanting to create something I didn’t see. And even the way it happened, like I didn’t have like six months of my salary saved up, I didn’t have a business plan. So I started this practice, Determined by Design. I always knew I didn’t want my name on the door. If we have time, I’ll come back to that very hideous story, behind the name. And the very first thing that I did when I started my business was a nonprofit project for domestic violence survivors. And everyone was like, “Wait, you quit your job, you don’t have any money, you don’t have a plan, and you’re going to do free work? Okay”

So I did this project. It was 12 women and 32 children. It was transitional housing for domestic violence survivors. And I went in there a little bit overzealous, maybe. Me? No. And I was like, “We’re here to provide design services for you.” And they were like, “Sis, calm down.” And I could have been easily taken aback, because they were pretty much like, “Yeah, we don’t need this.”

I think, for me, I saw myself in these women, and I knew they just didn’t know, because I didn’t know. So it went from, we had to engage with them in the design process, not for them. It went from, we don’t need this, to, “Man, someone would do this for us? I thought this was something I could only see on TV.” This one was really powerful for me, “Is this something I could do one day?”

For design, it really is about that end result, that beautiful picture. And we had all that, we had this great before and after. But this woman, she came up to me, and she said, “Miss Kia, when I walked into this room, I realized change was possible for me.” I think I knew, like it took me back kind of full circle, the people who need access to well designed spaces the most, they don’t know they don’t have it, they don’t know they need it, and they don’t have an advocate. I’ve built my entire practice around being that advocate. And it’s like, “Oh, that’s a feel-good story.” It is, but I think it also goes back to me really putting together the pieces of, “Well, I didn’t have a great space either. Why not?” Now, I want to do it for others.

And then I had to start to look at like, well, why don’t they have access to great spaces? I didn’t, they don’t, why? And this is where the design equity piece comes into play. There is a bias that exists when designing for low-income communities, and predominantly people of color. I hear that, “You’re making it too nice for these people. They don’t need that. It’s too much for this demographic.” Not that it’s ugly, but tell me something … It’s these inherent bias that exists when we design in communities of color, and it lacks empathy. And design equity is all about cutting that off at the knees. And also not using dignity as the benchmark. “Oh, we wanted to do something that was dignified for these people.” No one goes to Kelly Wearstler and says, “Kelly, I want a dignified space for my kids.” But that’s the benchmark in low-income spaces.

And remember, one of the things that I’m teaching my students is, I don’t see demographics, I see people. And I came from a hospitality and a luxury multifamily space, so the only way I knew how to design was like how I design the spaces for everybody else. I wouldn’t wash it down, or diminish it, based solely on this group of people’s socioeconomic standing. That’s what I get to do, me and my team get to do, at Determined by Design. That’s what design equity is. I think interior design … I don’t think, I know, it is not a luxury for a few, it is a standard for all. And it’s up to us collectively to elevate it for everyone.

SSR: Well, going back to what you said, just how buildings affect people, especially after the pandemic, we’ve learned even more like what it does to your wellbeing, to your mental, physical health. Changing a room, changing just the emotion of a room, changes people’s entire outlooks.

KW: Yes. And I love that you said the emotion of it. Me and my VP, Sequoyah, we were just talking about this idea of beauty, and beauty is subjective, but where she and I came to agreement is, but beauty is also about softness, comfort. It’s that intangible feeling you can’t describe. And at the height of the pandemic, in low-income communities, you saw this digital divide. But then if you also thought about the inequitable spaces people had to shelter down in, that’s inhumane. Some of them almost as bad as prisons. And I think it put this greater emphasis on design as a whole, for those who don’t have access to it. But what I’m teaching my students is, we need more advocates to use their voice when they see something blatantly ugly, biased. And I will say, would you want that space for yourself, for your loved one? Everyone in design should come from it from a space, is it good enough for my loved one? If we all did, I think you wouldn’t see this stark divide from market segment to market segment on what elevated design truly is.

SSR: And I love that you say elevated design, because you and I have had this conversation before, that good design doesn’t have to be expensive.

KW: Absolutely.

SSR: So that’s the other myth out there, that it’s going to cost too much, or doesn’t work. I mean, good design can be ugly. No, sorry, not good design, but expensive design can be ugly.

KW: Expensive design can still be ugly. Yeah.

SSR: I think there’s also getting through that myth, which I know has been part of what you’ve been teaching as well.

KW: This is my humble brag. This is what we shoot for, no value engineer, no VE. I don’t care what market segment you work in, everybody got to deal with VE. But in my affordable housing project, and sometimes I like to strip it down, in the poor housing, because literally the average median income for the families living in that building is less than $40,000 a year. So again, I’m using the language that is used to me.

We have a $30,000 Cooledge backlit light system as soon as you walk in the front door, that didn’t get value engineered out. Yes, design is expensive, but as a designer, how hard do you fight for your spec to stick? How hard do you fight for transparency between the subcontractor and the general contractor? Who are you at, “Oh, I can’t do that, because the GC is going to be mad?” No, no, no, I’m an advocate for the people. Now, could one of these residents come in here say, “Oh my God, there’s a backlit Cooledge light fixture?” No. It’s the principle of, look, design is accessible when there’s transparency, there’s not price gouging, and all the other things. So while we design great spaces, I also do a lot of making sure like, how many markups on that? Look, everybody mark up, that’s our industry, but if it’s six and seven times marks up to make it unaccessible, then that I have a problem with. But that’s what we get to do, is fight for transparency. And we spend a lot of money.

SSR: Well, and I think too, spending the money in the right places, right?

KW: Yes. And knowing how to spend money. If I could say a pro tip, we do like manufacturers, so we use the same tile manufacturer on every space in our job. And what does that do? That gives us bartering power. If we got ceramic techniques in the units, it’s in the common areas. It’s a very low hanging fruit cost saving way for volume. And it also, again, talking about equity at every touchpoint, if you think about the average tile subcontractor, they might be a contractor of color, small, so if I make my tile sub go to 12 different vendors, ceramic, tile bar, Dow, stone storage, mosaic, they’re not going to get the same pricing, they’re not going to get the same discounts. So I’m thinking about the equity touchpoint for every person in that process.

SSR: Right. You’re almost like a preferred vendor.

KW: Yeah. But we spread the love.

SSR: Yeah, exactly.

KW: We are very bureaucratic. Who did we use on our last project? Oh, go to the next person, go to the next person, go to the next. That way, everyone feels … Look, there’s business to be had, everyone feels the love. And in doing that … I’ll give you a prime example. We have this project in Boston, it’s coming out of the ground. And then when you think about a corridor, in a multi-dwelling building, whether that’s a hotel, a dorm, apartment, affordable housing, senior living, what do you typically see at an entry? An accent paint, maybe a wall covering, a light fixture, signage. In our affordable housing project, we have tile at 160 units, that goes into the door drop, all the way up to the ceiling, turns 24 inches, and Schluter, at every unit entry. So when people say affordable housing doesn’t have good budgets, it does, you just have to be a little bit more strategic. Because you don’t see a lot of tile going all the way up and down six floors of corridors in affordable housing. Hell, probably not even in market-rate housing. But it’s that volume spec that allows us to do that.

SSR: Awesome. Is there another project that you recently completed, or you’ve done throughout your time at Determined by Design, that you’re really proud of, or that speaks to what you all are trying to do?

KW: This is a completely different scale project. We dabble in retail design, and I always say I don’t subscribe to market segments, I focus on demographics of people who don’t have access to elevated spaces, those are the projects we want to do. So I had, fortunately, up until recently, I’d never really been affected when anyone in my immediate family who had experienced cancer. These two women, Dr. Regina Hampton and Jasmine Jones, in the DC area, they wanted to open a boutique lingerie store for breast cancer survivors of color. And I was like, “Why is that special?” And then I really learned about what the process is of being fitted for prostheses for a breast cancer survivor, not having colors that match your skin tone, and it’s really sterile. So we got to reimagine that experience for these women, and we did a boutique lingerie store. And that’s one of my favorite projects.

SSR: That’s awesome.

KW: We also did a coffee shop and bookstore in Germantown, Philadelphia, called Uncle Bobbie’s, where the owner, Marc Lamont Hill, he talks about how books saved his life, and it was his Uncle Bobbie’s who did that. And when everyone told him, “You can’t put a bookstore in Germantown, these are poor people, they don’t read or drink coffee,” he created a space for them. I love those two projects, because business owners of color, disenfranchise demographics for people who aren’t having access to elevated spaces, and we got to do that. So I’ve loved the small scale and big community impact that those projects have, and they are my absolute favorite. They are all my favorite, but those are different. They’re different. I love what I get to do.

SSR: How do you pick which projects you do? Is it the ones that resonate with you? Is it some repeat clients on the family side?

KW: It’s what resonates with me first and foremost, with us as a team. We have a lot of repeat, we don’t say clients, we say partners, we have a lot of repeat partners. And the reason we have to be very specific in that language, because remember I told you, we have to check their bias. So if I’m like, “Oh my God, that’s my client, I’m not going to get the next deal,” when really I’m like, “Hey, partner, I need you to do better. And let me help you and educate you along the way.” So it has to feel like a partnership. We have a lot of repeat partnerships and partners that we work with. And I think the more projects we do and execute, it’s like, “Wow, how do they do that?” And the narrative across the border is always, they’re like, “That’s affordable housing?” I’m like, “Yeah. Yeah, mofo, it is. Yeah.”

SSR: Look what we can do.

KW: This is what we can do. And I think that allows us to grow in the way that we’ve grown. That’s how we get great partners, is doing the work.

SSR: Talk about your firm makeup, how have you set it up?

KW: Sequoyah, she often says, “We’re virtual by design,” though she wrapped those words around it. So the team is virtual by design, it’s been that way since its inception. Frankly, if I’m being honest, it was a couple things. Everything that I did, I was like, “Well, how has it always been done? Can I do it another way? Yeah.” So I saw the traditional firm model, people going to the office, being burnt out, late hours, so I didn’t want that. I saw the overhead that businesses had to carry, which then meant they had to take products maybe they didn’t like, because they had to cover their overhead costs. So we’ve always been virtual.

And we believe in radical hospitality. What’s more welcoming than having a partner come to your home? So not only do I work from home, we do business from my home, but it also allows them to see the art that I’m collecting, see that, “Hey, look, I have these high gloss white cabinets from Ikea, but that big eight inch cabinet pull lifts it up.” We have this virtual by design makeup. We have team members in Philadelphia, on Long Island, in Miami, Richmond, Maryland, and DC. I kind of don’t like saying, “Oh, we’re a diverse team,” but I built it to be a diverse firm. I wanted people who could connect with the communities that we serve.

There’s about seven of us now. And they’re pretty sweet. They’re a pretty sweet team. And they want to do the work. And they get it, and it’s very emotional for them, which has its challenges. But for the most part, they love being a part of something bigger than themself. Some of them have come from other firms, but none of them have come from firms where they had leadership of color, that is very new for them, and they rally around it in a very intentional type of way.

SSR: How has the last two years changed you as a leader?

KW: It’s taught me to listen. It’s taught me to learn to compromise. And these are things I’m still learning. Because when everyone during the pandemic was like, “Oh, I had to lay people off,” we ramped up. We had a lot of work. And that type of shift in workload, and shift in team, was like, “Whoa.” A great design built practice has to have processes in place. What hasn’t changed is that we’re all about our people, to the core. I’m about my team. I think that’s changed. I think the real shift is just listening, processing, uplifting them as much as I’m uplifted. Sometimes my celebrity undercuts them, and that’s when I have the leader say, “No, what they said, I seen it, you got to receive it equally as well from them as whether I said it.” And that’s why I have to advocate for my team. It is hard. It is fun. Yep. I wouldn’t be able to do it with a different group of designers.

SSR: With everything going on, how do you constantly stay inspired?

KW: Music, art, I collect art. I have a budding art collection.

SSR: Do you go to like fairs and find them there, or you find things online?

KW: This will probably be the most … It’s just what it is, however you take it. I have a gallerist.

SSR: Oh, nice.

KW: Yes. And she brings artists to me. Her name is Amy Morton, with Morton Fine Art, she’s in DC. And then I also have the gallerist in Baltimore, her name is Myrtis, and it’s called Galerie Myrtis. I look for artists who are doing amazing things. And then I am an avid … I love biographies and stories of people, so reading. Again, as of late, traveling again. But I think it’s our concept development process that we’re known for, where we are constantly looking for the stories of people in the different communities that we’re designing in, that I also get to gain inspiration from. So it’s our process, art and books.

SSR: What’s one thing people might not know about you? Besides having a gallerist.

KW: Okay. All right. I don’t know if this is the thing to tell, but I’ll give you two things, one that’s kind of personal. I have probably watched the entire season of Gilmore Girls about a dozen times.

SSR: Why is that your go-to?

KW: You know what it is … I was talking to someone about this recently, it’s light. It’s light, it’s witty. It’s easy. And someone, they didn’t try to ruin it for me, they were like, “But you know there are no black people?” And I was like, “I don’t care. It’s light, it’s funny.” It’s just good. Fun fact, okay, this is a good one, so when I didn’t really have a team behind me, I had a secondary email address, and I would send emails as a person named Rory Danes. So if you know anything about Gilmore Girls, it was Luke Danes and Rory Gilmore.

SSR: Wait, just to be clear, you emailed so people thought you had a team?

KW: They thought I had another team member. That literally came from a character in the Gilmore Girls. So if you ever got an email from Rory Danes, it was me.

SSR: That is hysterical.

KW: Another really just fun thing about me is I still love to just dance. I used to do, on my Instagram, this thing called Morning Moves, where it would just be me dancing to whatever moved me in the moment. And I still love to dance in a very just freeing and carefree type of way.

SSR: What kind of dance did you do?

KW: I did ballet. So I did ballet, jazz and hip hop. I’m going to send you this photo I have of me, it’s very like, “That’s her personality.” I don’t look very elegant. I’m just kind of like I’m here.

SSR: I love it. Has there been a mentor for you along the way? Speaking about how it’s important to have people that you can connect with and see, was there anyone for you that helped you get to where you are today?

KW: Yes. Me. I am my own mentor. I am my own hero. Did I have people rooting for me? Yes. When you beg into question, what is a mentor? No, I didn’t in a traditional sense. Do I have people who have believed in me, and in key pivotal moments saw something in me I didn’t see in myself? Absolutely. And I’m going to tell you this woman’s name, and you’re going to know her. Everyone’s going to know her. We are so different, but I aspired to what she had built, and it’s Deborah Lloyd Forrest.

I remember seeing the work of Forrest Perkins in magazines. And I met her, this petite woman from Texas, at the time. She had her signature bob. I saw her at an ASID event, and I literally just said, “I saw your firm’s work, and I loved it.” And she’s kind of stayed like moments in my career. But I always admired what she built as a business, as a business woman. She’s been my silent champion. But for the most part it’s been me.

SSR: Well, my dad always said, “No one’s ever going to speak up for yourself except for yourself.”

KW: Yeah. And as a woman, it’s like, “Oh, can you say …” Me, I’m my own hero, that’s it. And they’re like, “Oh, but you’re a black woman, you were the …” All right, I leaned into … People ask me my greatest strength, is I showed up black and unapologetically myself every time. I owned being the only in a room, trying to shift that narrative of what it means to show up for yourself, be yourself, and still be successful in whatever space it is that you traverse.

SSR: Which isn’t easy to do.

KW: It’s not. It was not easy, but I think … Recently, I told someone, I was like, “I leaned into my ignorance to gain better understanding.” I was never afraid to not know. And that requires me to remove my ego and be like, “Wait, what does that mean? No, could you explain?” Even to this day, I don’t know all the things, but I don’t need to know, I need to learn to listen, and seek understanding in all that I do. That’s why I’m successful.

SSR: And not be afraid to ask. So what has been your greatest lesson learned along the way?

KW: Stay true to yourself. It sounds like ABC After School Special, but sometimes … This is why I say that, business 101 is people buy into people, but they got to see you to buy into you. If you look at what I’ve built in this industry, in this space, if we strip it down, black girl, low-income community, average student, got wealthy, made it, whatever words you want to use, in a luxury trade craft doing poor housing. I’m not trying to diminish what I’ve built, that’s not what I’m doing. If you strip it all down, I got here because I constantly showed up as myself, and I was constantly doing the work to advocate for others, and being in service of others, and trying to not have anyone experience the things that I’ve experienced. I got here because of empathy, equity, and service. And I still make a lot of money. People be like, “Oh, you did the poor …” No, no, we’re a very profitable business. But that’s the lesson I learned, show up as your whole self. Serve others, think of serving others first, and do it from a place of empathy and equity, design equity. That’s how I got here.

SSR: It’s amazing what you’ve done. What’s next for you?

KW: I will continue to teach. Determined by Design is still ever growing in our reach. And in the beginning of the year, we launched Lucidity Procurement, which is our own procurement company. So that team is ramping up as our sister company. So that’s really, really big. And hopefully soon, this podcast that I keep alluding to is going to come to fruition. But Lucidity is top of mind for me. And Determined by Design will be 10 in September.

SSR: Congratulations.

KW: But that’s what’s next. And it feels pretty sweet.

SSR: Looking back, would you have imagined 10 years ago what you’ve built?

KW: One of my favorite books ever is called A Return to Love by Marianne Williamson. In it, she talks about how, yes, it’s great to set goals, but sometimes our goals can only stop at what we can imagine. So I imagine I want to make a million dollars, but what if I make five? My imagination could only stop at 1 million. Yeah. Right? It’s a dope book. But she also talks about how much our ego shows up, as opposed to just doing something from a place of love. And the example she gives, Da Vinci didn’t paint to be the most renowned, he painted because he loved. I do Determined by Design because I love it, and the outcomes it creates for people. I don’t say I could have imagined where I’m at, but I knew I was determined by design to end up here, or somewhere, regardless.

SSR: Well, congratulations.

KW: Thank you, sis.