Chad Oppenheim

Stacy Shoemaker Raeun: Hi, I’m here with Chad. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Chad Oppenheim: My pleasure, Stacy, always nice to chat.

SSR: It’s good to see you. So for this podcast, we always start at the beginning. So where did you grow up?

CO: I was born in New York and then my parents, when I was two, moved to New Jersey, the suburbs of Manhattan, central Jersey, and spent my childhood there.

SSR: Where in New Jersey? I’m a Jersey girl.

CO: Are you really? I can’t believe we never knew that. We moved to a town called Marlboro and then from Marlboro, we moved to a town called Homedale and my parents ended up building a house and that’s how I became interested about becoming an architect. So I would sit around the table with my parents and the architect, dreaming up our future home and do the… It’s full circle.

SSR: That’s amazing.

CO: Where are you from?

SSR: So I grew up in Long Valley, New Jersey, a small little town in Northwest part of New Jersey, near Morristown. And then I now just recently bought a house in Rumson, so not far from Homedale.

CO: Rumson! Good for you. I love it. Yeah. That’s a beautiful place.

SSR: So wait, so tell us about them building their dream home and how that got you into the idea of architecture.

CO: So, my parents decided, one day my father came home and he is like, oh, I bought a piece of land in Homedale, one of the neighboring towns and we’re going to build a house. And so ended up working with this architect who worked with the builder, but it wasn’t his full-time job. He worked in a firm I guess, and so at night he would moonlight and meet with us and we would sit around the table. And I don’t know if he was really, the house is very modern, but I think it’s more from my mother who really fell in love with some of the Gwathmey Siegel homes in the Hamptons. And so it was these very tall, long Cedar pieces of wood that was reminiscent of some of those early homes of even Richard Meier and Gwathmey Siegel did in the Hamptons and had a lot of that language.

And, we would just sit around and draw up our fantasies. And I was like, oh, this is amazing. And from that point on, I was into architecture. My mother brought me Frank Lloyd Wright books and just really loved it. And I wanted to be a car designer before that. So that was my passion. And then as soon as I got the architecture bug, I was like, oh, I can just come up with all these incredible ideas. And that was just fun to dream. And I still think that I’m living that same existence of just dreaming up these fantasies and making them reality. So it’s a fun job.

SSR: Yes. And someone has to do it. Right? So did you end up then going to school for architecture?

CO: I did. So, I always really participated strongly in art within school, but we didn’t have anything architectural. So, in high school, my mother signed me up at the community college to take architecture classes when I was, I want to say a sophomore or junior in high school. So I’d go to high school during the day and at night I would go drive to the community college, very close to Rumson actually. It was a community college called Brookdale Community College and they had an architecture class and I just lucked out because the professor was amazing. He was a practicing architect in New Jersey. We still keep in touch today. And he went to Yale, he worked with Peter Eisenman and studied under Peter Eisenman who’s a legendary theorist architect.

CO: And then he also worked for Gwathmey Siegel, which was interesting, like full circle. So I worked in his office for two years in high school, after I did that course, and it just was really interesting. And then I did a summer course at Cornell, an introduction to architecture. They have a summer program where they literally beat you up and make sure you really want to be an architect. And I persevered and then ended up going to Cornell and doing my Bachelors of Architecture for five years. And every summer I would live somewhere else around the world, working for different architects and people all around the world from Spain, Israel, Japan, I built a home for a professor of mine in the desert, an Earthship in Talus, New Mexico, lived in Rome for half a year. So really traveled around through the lens of architecture since the beginning of college. So, and traveling Wilbury.

SSR: Yeah. That’s amazing. Was there one summer, one experience that really stands out to you in your memory or?

CO: Yeah. It’s funny, I think that travel is one of the most important things of architectural education, even something interesting enough like the very renowned architect Tadao Ando. He actually never even went to architecture school. He actually just traveled around for years, studying architecture. And I feel like, I don’t know if there’s necessarily one, but certainly my time living in Rome was very, very pivotal to my formation of ideas. And then I would say that also living in Japan, and the essence of Japanese architecture, Japanese gardens, the relationship of nature to the work. So I bring together the Roman and the Japanese in a curious fusion, but it’s just everything, it’s every experience.

CO: I learned something every day. I learned a lot here in Miami and I think one of the pivotal moments that I could recall here, because I loved watching Miami Vice as a kid growing up in New Jersey. And I would just see all these worlds, this incredible world, even though, I went to Florida, my grandmother and grandfather lived in West Palm Beach. So I knew West Palm Beach in a senior living type of environment, I knew Disney world. And when I started watching Miami Vice, Michael Mann’s tour de force pivotal television series, it just like blew my mind. I was like, oh my God, look at the way these people dress, look at the cars, the boats, the architecture. And when the opening sequence went, it was just like, wow, this is another world that we were transported to.

And interestingly enough, when Michael came to film the movie Miami Vice, well, roughly 20 something years later, he had reached out to me and we connected and we became friends. And he had said to me at that time, which I thought was, for me, one of the greatest, he’s like, your architecture represents the new Miami. And I was like, oh my God! I can’t believe it. I watched all your shows and it was very inspiring to me. So, he’s an incredible visionary director and I really love connecting with him and so forth. But yeah. So in terms of other Miami inspiration, I would say that when Philippe Starck opened up the Delano for Ian Schrager and designed the Delano, that blew me away. I remember just going there that opening night and like, could not believe my eyes of what Philippe Starck created.

And it was just an all sensory experience and the billowing curtains. And, unfortunately it looks a little bit run down these days, but oh man, it was also being transported to this other world, this fairy tale that Philippe Starck wrote about Miami. And it was just incredible. So that was really pivotal of me. And what was interesting is years later, actually I met my wife at the Delano, not years later, but shortly thereafter, and then years later we were asked to design the Delano and Montreal hotels in Las Vegas. So we ended up doing that. Unfortunately, the project stopped due to the global financial crisis in 2008. But that was, for me, like, wow! I have these pivotal moments where I’m like, oh my God!

I can’t believe that’s happening. And, yeah, there was another one like that just curiously, we ended up working with Disney on doing a hotel in Shanghai, and I’m a huge fan of Pixar’s films. And somewhere on the project, they had asked us to collaborate with Pixar and bring in some of the movie elements. And so we ended up working with Pixar to collaborate, which to me was amazing. And they gave us a standing ovation when we were at their office, when we showed them our work. And I was like, oh my God! You guys are my heroes. And you gave us a standing ovation. So it’s a Toy Story hotel in Shanghai that we completed a couple years ago, so.

SSR: Amazing.

CO: I haven’t been, but it’s exciting. So yeah, these are fun highlights.

SSR: Yeah, exactly. And so you bring up Miami a lot. What brought you after all your travels, how did you end up settling in Miami?

CO: Well, interestingly enough, when I graduated college in ‘94, there was another financial crisis. And a lot of my favorite architects that I was hoping to work for in Europe were bankrupt, like Jean Nouvel, Rem Koolhaas, all these guys were having severe financial troubles. And I had gotten a job with Rem Koolhaas in would start in January; theoretically. And I was living in my parents’, in my old bedroom. And I was like, how could I be, after five years of the greatest architectural training end up in my parents’, in my childhood bedroom, living in suburban New Jersey? And I was like, something’s not right. And I had just come back from Japan. I was on this fellowship in Japan. And that was, as I mentioned earlier, just such an incredible experience.

And I was possibly going to go back to Japan. And I remember this architect, who I really admired, I’m not going to name names pretty well known, offered me $500 a month salary and an apartment that was probably five feet by 10 feet wide, just a bed. And I was like, oh, should I live here? And I had no money, so I couldn’t support myself any other way. So I was hesitant on that, but still thinking I would go back. And then I just started interviewing in, not my first choices at the time. And I had gotten a job in London, a professor of mine got me a temporary job to help on some projects in London.

I got a student visa, flew there and I got deflected at the border. They didn’t let me in. And it was like, oh my God, that’s crazy. So I got sent back and interestingly enough, right before I left, I had applied to work with Ian Schrager on the Delano and I had gotten a call, or a letter from them saying, hey, we want to speak with you about helping us out. And I was like, oh, I’m going to London, blah, blah, blah. And then I got back and I was like, oh, wait a minute. Actually, I’m back. I got back home. And, so I ended up interviewing with Anda Andrei who ran, for many, many years Ian’s design, part of his office and subsequently we’ve become friends because she’s moved down to Miami.

We’ve worked together, collaborated on some projects. So it’s another one of these full circles. But yeah, that’s how I got back to Miami, was got kicked out of England, never even made it into England. So I didn’t even get kicked out, turned around and then ended up interviewing down in Miami as well for the firm Arquitectonica who did a lot of the buildings I saw in Miami Vice. So that’s how I ultimately got down to Miami. I’m like, hey, it’s not a bad place. Could be interesting to go for a couple years before grad school, which I had always intended to go back to grad school and I had my eyes on the GSD at Harvard and, I don’t know. One thing led to another, I never ended up leaving and started my own firm five years later after really intense experiences working at Arquitectonica and doing a lot of really interesting projects around the world. I ended up starting my own firm, and I ended up going back to Harvard, but teaching at Harvard, rather than the studying, but that was a lot of fun.

SSR: So, you’ve worked for these amazing people, had all these experiences in Arquitectonica, as you said, what were some of the key takeaways working at Arquitectonica and what, after that, led you to take that leap, right, to open up your own firm?

CO: Yeah. I didn’t really know what I was doing in terms of opening my own firm. It just seemed like, oh, well what had happened was I had worked on all these different projects and even worked on the original Standard with Andre Balazs, they had put me on that project because I was the young hipster at the office. And, I think what I learned was really the ability to work at many different scales, many different locations. And when I went out on my own, I really wanted to do deeper dives on projects, maybe not work on that many at once, but really focus intensively on work.

And so that was really my directive, was to really give tremendous depth of thought and research and apply that type of thinking to the projects that were more typically mundane. Right? So, when we were starting, we started doing multifamily projects and except for some of the cool ones that Arquitectonica did in the early ‘80s. They weren’t really pushing the envelope. So we started creating these, almost like bringing together the boutique lifestyle that were in hotels and bringing them into residential projects which now seems very common. But at the time, really no one was fusing those two. So I was bringing together what I saw in the Delano and this experiential architecture and then fusing it with multifamily residential, and really started building a tremendous connection to these fusions.

What we’re seeing now even is, where we do office buildings and other types of projects and resort is, everything is fusing together, right? The home is becoming like the resort, the office is becoming the home, the hotel… So it is very interesting to see these fusions and we’re very much bring together because we do hospitality, because we do offices and high end residential and multifamily residential, and commercial work, we’re able to bring best practices and best thinking together and fuse them in very interesting ways. So we really love doing that.

SSR: What do you consider your big break after starting your firm or the moment that Oppenheim was put on the proverbial map, if you will?

CO:  I’m still waiting. I’m still waiting. Honestly, I hope one day it happens. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s interesting, it’s a very thrilling ride. You work on these projects and they happen, sometimes they don’t happen, sometimes they do. And they’re very complicated. And so many things have to go right for them to become reality. And I didn’t realize it until my wife and I decided to have children and it’s a strange analogy, but I was realizing like, Hey, it’s actually not, when you’re younger, like, oh my God! I don’t want to have a kid and a teenage pregnancy or whatever, but then when you’re older, you’re like, wow, this is actually, a lot of things have to go right for the miracle of birth to happen.

CO: And in some ways it’s like the miracle of architecture, for a project to happen. It’s so many things have to fall into place. From the client finding you to the project working financially, to the local zoning, to neighbors not fighting you. And just the feasibility of these things, especially when you’re doing these very fanciful, trying to make these fantasies. And we’re working on this project right now in the desert in Saudi Arabia where we’re taking an incredibly large, massive rock, if you will, that’s like 700 feet tall by mile long or whatever, kilometer, I don’t know the exact length of it.

And we’re putting a resort in the rock and hiding it in the rock and nestling it in the nooks and crannies. But the amount, it’s an easy idea, but to execute it, not even to build, but just to design it is hundreds of people with geotechnical engineers and civil engineers and structural and environmental. And it’s just incredible to make it look like it wasn’t there. And, so I think that’s something that we’ve been working on for many, many years. And we really are super excited to see this project finally break ground and come to reality. But it’s a really interesting profession when you’re trying to push things to places that have not happened before.

So, we are still waiting. Another project that was a big boost for us was the Emiliano Hotel in Rio de Janeiro that we had worked on for a couple of years and is built in Copacabana beach right now, and the Disney project. It’s interesting, some projects like Disney, we can’t even really promote them. They’re not even on our webpage, Disney keeps it very discreet. They don’t even allow you to have it published or anything like that unfortunately, but we still have the incredible memories of our collaboration with Disney and Pixar. And that’s really, I think architecture and design and interior, it’s a team sport and we love working for clients who have incredible visions. And we love that collaborative experience where we’re working together to find and build our mutual dreams. And it’s something that we really love doing.

SSR: I think what’s really interesting about you and I’d love to hear your perspective in your firm is that you are pushing those boundaries, right? And you are trying to do things that are one with the land, right, that are sustainable, but also very innovative and really thinking outside of the proverbial box. Is that something that you’ve always been interested in? Is that something that’s evolved is that… I don’t know.

CO: Yeah. The point about building with the land is really critical. And it’s funny enough, I learned something in elementary school where they had told us that, we were studying Native Americans and they were saying the Native Americans lived with the land and not on the land. And I was a seventh grader or whatever, like, oh, okay. But it took me 40 years later probably to actually pick up that subtlety. And it’s an ingrained philosophy for us because sometimes we go to these projects and they bring us to these sites and we’re like, anything we do will destroy the beauty of this place, the serenity, the ecology. So we take an approach where we’re not trying to be radical.

We’re just trying to be respectful and in a way, submissive to the natural environment and find ways to really connect powerfully with the land and the place. And because we’re not thinking about architecture per se, but thinking about experience and crafting that heightened experience on how one can connect with a place, where we’re just ending up down these pathways that are, in some ways, not necessarily new, right? Like the Nabateans built these deserts 2300 years ago in Petra and others where they carved into the rocks. And, obviously some of the first structures of civilization were found caves and things, so I’m a modern day caveman, if you will. But in a project like ISLA, there’s some sort of alchemy there in that we’re basically taking in the earth and transforming it into inhabitable sculpture.

And for us, something like that is really interesting because we love to build with the land. I learned that the seventh grade lesson, and what does that really mean? It doesn’t mean importing travertine from Italy, not to say I don’t love travertine from Italy. I love it. But, it’s like, how can we make these projects rooted and connected and grounded within their local metaphysical context of what it feels like, but always with the underlying notions of, it’s not just for that sake, it’s like, how do you create the most pleasurable environment? How do you use the land and the climate as opposed to working against it and trying to fight it, right? And our belief really has, when we look at this, we see thousands of years of civilization attempting to dominate nature rather than coexist and be in harmony.

And fortunately, we’re seeing, these are things that we’ve been working on, before we were talking about some of the interesting rides. Like we were doing a project in Abu Dhabi where we’re building a, what was called Nature City. And we were essentially creating nature, accelerating the processes of nature. And rather than thinking about habitat for our species, developing the paradise again that we lost, this paradise lost, and then working in harmony with that to create a community in a new way. Not at odds with the natural world, but in more coexist. And so for us, it’s great to see this movement happening more and more. And I love to see different interpretations of that, but I feel like there is a greater sensitivity to the environment, and unfortunately, I think a lot of it has to do from these days.

And there’s obviously a big call to arms with all these climate catastrophes and we need to really mobilize. And my good friend, the prime minister of Albania gave a very compelling speech at the United Nations Climate Conference and spoke about that as well. So we’re doing a lot of work in Albania and we’ve been working with the prime minister. He’s actually an artist and an art professor, and he became mayor of Tirana and then prime minister. And he’s the most visionary leader that you could ever imagine. The guy’s unbelievable. So we’re doing a lot in Albania right now. A lot of resort projects and really beautiful country.

SSR: How did you meet him? Just out of curiosity.

CO: Yeah, right? Through a mutual friend who had some friends in Albania, we got involved in a project and they had started this project, but a new group of investors had come in and they wanted to see how to enhance what was already done. So our job was to take part of the structure that was already built and incorporate it, but keep the overall intent of what was done. So we had very limited ability. So we did something, the client loved it. And then, I don’t know, a couple of days later, they’re like, hey, would you mind presenting this to the prime minister of Albania? He really is interested in the development of the coastline and wants to make sure that it’s correct.

I was like, yeah, sure. So, got on a zoom like this and the flag of Albania, and then here comes the prime minister. And I present to him the work we’ve done on the project. And he funny enough started saying, this project does not show your incredible abilities to work with the land and build within the landscape and speak about the spirit of place and all this and whatever. And he was destroying what we did, but at the same time asking us to do more of what we normally do if we were not constrained by the existing project. So after the meeting, I was blown away. I was like, this guy is unbelievable. It was like being in one of the best architecture schools in the world and the most brilliant professor is critiquing your project.

And it was the prime minister of Albania. And we had to go back to the clients and be like, hey, you heard what he said, do we start from scratch? And they’re like, yes, you’ve got to do what he says. So we started from scratch. We then had another presentation with the prime minister and he loved what we did. And then we just have done more and more projects. And believe it or not, he loves to see everything, and reviews everything, the design review of all the projects in Albania. So it’s pretty amazing. And we’re working on another project right now where we had a meeting with him last week and he also didn’t like what we did. So he made us think in another direction, but it’s fun. It’s like we enjoy the collaborative process and he likes to push and really get some very interesting ideas. So we’re regrouping and going to make another attempt at getting an alignment.

SSR: Well, it’s good to have somebody that pushes you, right?

CO: Yeah, no, it is. I love it. I love it. It’s a lot of fun to push and be inspired by our clients, right? Even though he is not always the client directly, but we love working with people who have strong visions and we ourselves have strong visions, but it’s getting into the understanding of every project that allows us to find that vision. Right? And it’s understanding the clients and working with them. And, we had done a lot of work early on with Barry Sternlicht in The One Hotels, helping develop that brand in the beginning, on some projects that unfortunately didn’t happen.

But my sister had actually met him once at a conference at business school up at Harvard. And she’s like, oh, I’m Meredith Oppenheim, Chad’s my brother. I know you guys worked together. He’s like, oh yeah, Chad’s the most user-friendly architect I’ve ever worked with, which I thought was a nice comment. But it’s true because we obviously have strong ideas, but our ideas are also around making the vision of our clients reality as well. Right? That’s what makes our job so interesting, right? We’re working all around the world, we’re working in all different typologies from water treatment plants and infrastructure that we’re actually working on.

Like we did a water treatment plant that supplies water to the basal area. And now we’re doing one that’s going to supply water to half of Germany. So we do that, we do resorts, we’re working on an incredible resort with one of our favorite brands, Six Senses, in Saudi Arabia as well. Confidential, but just high level. So we just love to work in so many different environments, whether it be the mountains in the Rockies or where we’re doing a couple of really beautiful villas to Miami, to Brazil, to Albania and Jordan and Saudi Arabia. So, that’s what makes it interesting, and understanding each project, and how we can bring a unique voice to that, is something that I think makes it interesting. So yes, we have strong ideas, but it’s fascinating for us to build on them through the clients’ vision.

SSR: Right, right.

CO: And a site, right? So it’s the client and the site and, when I say site, I mean everything in that culture and that ever happened in that area. We do very deep dives and do a lot of research from the beginning on.

SSR: Amazing. And is there one part of the process that you love the most?

CO: I would say it’s that creative spark where you’ve struggled and struggled and struggled to comprise all these factors and zoning codes and brand standards and clients wishes and the land and the uniqueness, and you’ve found all the opportunities, you’ve uncovered them. I believe that they’re there, like in some way we’re archeologists uncovering the truth of a site and it’s in a way like Michelangelo would say, the stone will tell me what it wants to be. It sounds corny, but I remember we did a really wonderful project for the movie director, Michael Bay. He entrusted us to do his home in Los Angeles. We actually ended up doing his home in Miami too. But, I was on this site and I’ve always been so inspired by LA and it’s in one of those places that really the topography and the history of residential explorations from Schindler, Frank Lloyd Wright, and I’m feeling the energy of the site, he’s like, what are you doing?

I was like, it’s telling me what it wants to be, the how. And then it’s not that it’s there, but I have to study it and feel it, and work with the team to extract it out of the site. So it’s a very cathartic process. And when you get it, that’s the moment of euphoria, where you’re just like, oh my God, this is amazing! Let’s do it. And I think I would have to say, that’s my favorite time, that euphoric moment of creation and that you’re satisfied that you’ve done the most amazing thing you could possibly think of. So that’s my… unfortunately it’s not much fun after that. And then of course, that’s when the fun ends and the tough part begins. And then the other fun part is occupying it and feeling it and seeing it built in reality. And that’s always a great experience for sure.

SSR: Right. I love it. And then how do you cultivate a culture in your office that thinks outside the box, right? That allows them to dream big, right, and do these projects that push boundaries.

CO: That’s a good question. I hope just that my passion and my exuberance to go down these paths and to find that opportunity is what’s inspiring the team. But it’s definitely hard to do because that means sometimes more work, right? It’s that pursuit is sometimes contradictory to the easy pleasures of why we become market. But at the end of the day, I think that people are also satisfied with the results, right? They feel that they were part of this magical moment of creation. We all are, right? The team is so important and I plant the seed, but they take care of it and we work together to make these impossible dreams reality.

CO: So I think that’s what hopefully motivates everyone, because in some ways that’s contradictory to a very robust financial model, right? If I were to think purely from a business standpoint, which we never do, we think more about the business standpoint of our clients rather than, hey, let’s try something else. We could just be satisfied with our first inklings, which I would imagine would be pretty good, but we really want to leave no stone uncovered. And for us, that perhaps means harder work and more work, but the end results are the payoff for us to see that incredible project come to reality.

SSR: Right. And you do hospitality, you do residentially, you do urban planning, you do big thinking. As you said, you do a lot of different things in your office. How does that help feed you and your team to constantly stay inspired and think differently? Does everyone work on various projects or do you have different groups or? Talk a little bit about your process and how each discipline might inform the other.

CO: Yeah, we tend to work on different types of projects, but there might be people in the office who, let’s say just by happenstance and timing started working on the Saudi Arabia project. So now, every time there’s a Saudi Arabia project, those team leaders work on that. And then there might be a team that works on projects in the islands, like in The Bahamas. And so there are a lot of different overlap and then there are senior designers who begin to work differently in different things. So, they might work on a resort in Bali and then they might be working on a Villa in Miami beach on the ocean. So I think that’s exciting. We try to bring the people on projects who have the experience for that, but we also bring people on that don’t have the experience.

Because I think it gives everyone a fresh perspective. And I jump and lead the design direction on all the projects, and for me, I’m always searching for inspiration for different ways to think about things and whether it be like going in nature and disappearing into the ocean, or the mountains. But also, looking at art and particularly land artists, like Terell and Sarah and Michael Heizer, or even films. And there was some discussion that some of our work, it could be a good set for Dune the movie and interestingly enough, people have drawn some association, but then I watched the movie Dune and I’m like, wow! There’s some interesting thing.

So films, growing up, we had wrote this book called Lair, L-A-I-R. And it’s a book about all the lairs of movie villains that have inspired me through the years. So, that was some very early architectural inspiration, was seeing in James Bond films, these incredible hideaways that these villains constructed oftentimes in these very remote landscapes. The first one I saw, which really inspired me and probably inspired me for a project like Desert Rock in Saudi Arabia where we’re building into the rock, was the man with the golden gun. And the villain there was Skalla Mandra and he had this hideaway that were in these limestone islands in Thailand and he had this inserted modern architecture that was really spectacular.

And the sets were designed by Ken Adam. He was the legendary production designer and he did Dr. Strangelove and a bunch of others. But to me, this man with the golden gun, his hideaway built into these rocky island, it completely blew my mind. So I’ve been inspired by this. We did the book, the book was 30 years in the making. And we finally published it, I don’t know, a year or two ago, it’s hard to remember when. And people love it, because it’s just a really interesting take on architecture. But some of the things that we do are layers as well. So it’s a very interesting, full circle there as well.

SSR: Yeah, such a cool idea. And you also teach a lot too. When do you find time to sleep? You’re at FIU, Cornell, at Harvard, at University of Miami, what drew you or why do you love teaching?

CO: I just think it’s so interesting. Maybe it’s selfish. I find that I’m learning from absorbing everything, right? The young people have such vibrant imaginations and just understanding and diving in and finding inspiration everywhere. Of course I love the idea that I can inspire people as well to think along the lines of, our last studio that we did, with the director of her office in Switzerland and the studio leader in Switzerland, he moved to up to Cornell. And then I taught the class with the person who runs our office in Switzerland, who was a classmate of mine at Cornell [inaudible 00:51:43]. And the whole studio was about this notion of co-exist, and thinking about how architecture and nature can form a more positive relationship.

And so to me, I hope that I inspire the students to think in other ways and push things further. And it’s just a really enjoyable process when you have great students. When you have students who are not so great, it’s not that much fun, but you always get a mixture even in the best universities where people blow your mind and then other people you’re really trying to get them to care and commit and give their time, because it takes a big commitment to do that. And it could be really spectacular for everyone if everyone’s fully committed.

SSR: Yeah, no, for sure. What is one thing that people might not know about you?

CO: Let’s see, I’m a hypersensitive person.

SSR: What’s your sign?

CO: I’m Capricorn, I don’t know. I don’t know what that’s really… but I think it’s a blessing and a curse. It allows me to think of the ramifications of everything, because I am really tuning in to many different energies, whether it be the site or the clients, or what have you. But at the same time, I’m not a sensitive mess, but I’m just saying being sensitive, people meet me and they would never imagine that I’m a very sensitive person. We know each other for many, many years and I’m a larger person. I’m 6’3, 240, so I’m not a small person, but I’m the gentle giant, and who is very sensitive and caring. And so that’s perhaps a little information that was unknown.

SSR: I love it. I love it. Well, my husband’s a Capricorn as well. You guys are very loyal. You can be stubborn at times but you are loyal and kind.

CO: I was watching a film on Netflix, which was quite interesting about Michael Schumacher, the race car driver. And he was a Capricorn.

SSR: Oh, wait. Are you obsessed with that show? Is it the F1, formula one?

CO: No, it isn’t, but I might start watching that. I didn’t watch it. This is called Schumacher, and it’s a documentary on Michael Schumacher’s life from the beginning to now where he’s incapacitated from a ski accident. But interestingly enough, they were saying that he’s a Capricorn, and Capricorns it’s very hard for them ever to admit that they’re wrong. And I was like, oh, that’s actually pretty right. It’s not because I don’t believe, I just, I’m very thoughtful and sensitive. And I try not to do anything that would upset someone or whatever. And in the instance with Michael Schumacher, he had hit another driver. And he was like, well, he hit me. It wasn’t me. But he finally admitted to it later, but it is interesting how they were saying that Capricorns are hard to admit that they’re ever wrong. Remember that in your personal journey.

SSR: Yes I will. So we always end this podcast, which I don’t want to end because I can sit here and talk to you forever, but in sake of time.

CO: Yeah, this was quite nice.

SSR: Yeah, I know. We should do this more often. What has been, or what is your greatest lesson learned along the way?

CO: My greatest lesson learned, it would be never give up your dream. Persistence is almost more important than anything. And if you don’t succeed once, try and try again. I think you have to have passion, but you also need the grit and the persistence to persevere against all odds. And I’ve been confronted with many professional disappointments that you were like, oh my God, this is crazy, but you have to just keep going. And, I just think that that’s really important lesson that I’ve learned is just never give up. Be tenacious and persistent and keep believing in what you do. And good things will come.

SSR: Well, can’t wait to see what’s next and see all these amazing projects come to life because-

CO: I know. Me too, me too. That’s so much fun. Thank you, Stacy.

SSR: I can’t thank you enough for spending this hour with me and I hope to see you in real life soon.

CO: Awesome. Awesome. Okay. Thank you.