Lisa Simeone + Gina Deary

Stacy Shoemaker Rauen: So, hi, I’m here with Lisa and Gina. Lisa and Gina, thanks so much for joining us here today. How are you?

Lisa Simeone: Great. Pleasure to be here.

Gina Deary: Yes. Thank you for having us. Recovering from Vegas.

SSR: Yes. Aren’t aren’t we all? Okay. So we always start at the beginning. So, Lisa, where did you grow up?

LS: Stacy, I grew up in Little Rhody, Rhode Island.

SSR: I don’t think I knew that.

LS: Yeah.

SSR: Were you always a creative kid, into creative things like art and whatnot?

LS: You know what, I always was. My mom loves to tell the story that I used to go to her as a two or three year old and just be like, “I need to do something with my hands. Please like help me.” And she would just not know what to do with me after a gazillion coloring books and toys. She just never knew what to do with me. So when I was old enough, she used to enroll me in crazy enough college fashion design courses. And there I’d be like this little 12 or 13 year old with these college kids on a Saturday afternoon in fashion design courses because they just didn’t know what to do with me. There really wasn’t anything back in those early, late ’60s, early ’70s in our little small town.

She just wanted to get me into something creative because she didn’t know what to do. So I always had a creativity in me. Just never knew where to place it.

SSR: That’s awesome. All right. Well, come back. But Gina, where did you grow up?

GDI grew up in Troy, Michigan. It’s about as exciting as it sounds. It’s home of the strip malls. But it’s by Birmingham. It’s right outside of Detroit. So we would spend a lot of time when we were younger going to Detroit, checking it out.

SSR: Nice. And were you a creative kid as well?

GD: I was. I grew up in a household where creativity wasn’t exactly thought of as, not in a bad way. Just wasn’t ever looked at as something that you could do something with. Do you know what I mean? It was always like, “Oh, look at my daughter. She’s artsy-fartsy,” what my dad would always say. I don’t know how deep you want to get into this, but I was extremely creative and I would always be trying different avenues. So I would write poetry, which I was terrible at. I would read a lot. I would cook.

I taught myself how to cook really young. So cooking was a creative outlet for me for a while. I would draw. I was interested in a lot of stuff. Now, the interesting thing is my mom was always redoing our house. She is the person I got the gene from and she would be very all over the place. So I feel like somehow I got into interior design eventually because watching my mom kind of always be painting a wall another color.

SSR: Yeah. Lisa, were your parents creative in any way? What did they do?

LS: No. My dad was a teacher guidance counselor and my mom was the clerk of our town hall. She ran our town hall. So no, very kind of more… Like Gina said, more about, this is a great thing as a hobby, but how are you ever going to make a living out of this? No. So our paths were always like, have fun doing this on the side, but always try to find a career that you can make some money at.

SSR: Well, you figured that out. Did you both go to school for design?

LS: Not at the beginning, no. I did want to go to school for design, but again was kind of directed more towards the sciences because I was also very good in science and I was looking to get into more of psychology and sociology. And I did get my first degree in psychology. That’s what I got my bachelor’s degree in. And I use it every single day.

GD: On me.

SSR: It’s helpful. Gina, did you?

GD: No, I didn’t. Well, I went to school and I enrolled in the interior design program. At the time, it was picking out finishes and putting boards together and you know. It was really about interior decorating and I didn’t like it. So I got out and couldn’t figure out what I wanted do, so I got a business degree, a dual degree in marketing and general business, which was honestly, if I tell you this that I went and sold penny stocks for a while, which I was also not good at it.

GD: Then I worked at the Board of Trade and I was an art clerk. The whole time I kept thinking, I really wanted to do something creative. I really needed to find that thing. One of my friend’s fathers was an architect and one day he was showing us this kind of slideshow he put together of all these amazing buildings all over the world. Do you know when you get that feeling like scared shitless, but also super excited? I got the feeling and I’m like, “Okay, this is the direction I want to go.” And then he kind of said, interior design isn’t what you think it is. It’s actually a science and it’s a skill. It’s as much part of architecture as architecture. Then I was sold.

SSR: Did you have to go back to school then for that?

GD: Oh, yeah. Lisa and I both… We both, our second careers and we both went back to school for our design degrees. So we both started later. I didn’t really start my whole career until I was out of school. I was 28. Quite a lot of time to make up for there.

LS: Me too.

SSR: I mean, do you think having a first career kind of helped you later on like having a business degree, having these other degrees that you can pull in because obviously what you all do is a ton of design, but it’s also a running company, managing people, a lot of other aspects of what you do on a day to day basis?

GD: Absolutely. My business degree, I mean, you have to go through accounting. You have to go through economics. Honestly, if you’re not getting your MBA, it’s just kind of a basic hitting everything basically. Right? But when Lisa and I started our business, I think if I wouldn’t have had that background, I don’t think I would’ve had the courage at times because when you’re faced with a lot of challenging things and every single thing is challenging.

I always knew in the back of my mind that the business part really isn’t. If you’re organized and you have a great foundation and you start there, it takes away some of the anxiety and fear. So I’m very grateful for all the time I spent and all those boring classes. They weren’t boring. I’m kidding.

SSR: Lisa, what about you?

LS: Yeah. I just think, Stacy, just having a little bit more maturity going into the career, the design career, you have to have a little bit of a thick skin when you’re putting your ideas on the table for somebody to judge, so to speak. So I think just going in there a little older, a little wiser, a little bit more seasoned and being able to understand yourself a little bit better, I think gave us a leg up. For me, personally anyway.

SSR: So how did you two meet?

LS: I moved to Chicago in ’96 and I got a job at Marv Cooper design. Marv Cooper was a brilliant restaurant designer here in Chicago. And Gina was this young kind of… Gina, were you just out of school at that point?

GD: Yeah, I was.

LS: Just out of school, like super creative, whirlwind of an amazing designer. I was going to manage the department and that’s how we met. I got a job here. I moved from Rhode Island to Chicago and stepped in the door and I was like, “I need to meet this woman.” She was just like a whirling dervish of creativity, like crazy.

GD: And that’s all I was. There was a lot of crazy beyond the crazy.

LS: That’s not true.

GD: I needed some direction. It was interesting because Lisa and I liked each other right away. She was a mentor to me in many, many ways when we first started. I mean, this is, God, very long ago. Lisa, how long ago was it?

LS: ’96, ’97

GD: Yeah. So we’re aging ourselves. But at that point I was in an office with all men and it was fine because I learned so much from them. And they were tough on me, which I liked because I needed that. But what I didn’t realize is that I wasn’t standing up for myself. I was putting myself in a position where I wasn’t asking for the right money that I should be paid. I was just grateful to be there. So Lisa came in, and besides us being really complimentary design wise, she really helped me kind of stand up for myself and learned my value. And we have really funny stories about that, that I don’t necessarily know if I want them everywhere. But I’ll just say that when Lisa walk in-

SSR: You should share. 

GD: I am not afraid. I’ll let Lisa tell a story if she wants, but the first time I saw her, she was coming in the door, and you were with your husband, but all I saw was this cool, orange jacket that was like kind of Princey like the singer Prince. And I’m like, “Oh, thank God. Please get the job, please get the job.” Because we had a bunch of people that were very serious. And she did not disappoint. She was the comedian of the office right away.

LS: Yep. Gina and I became fast friends and kind of cohorts in design. I don’t think our dynamic has changed very much over the years. Would you say, Gina?

GD: No. I mean, I think it’s grown up a lot and of course we have partnerships that are so rewarding, but they are also very difficult. And I think we’ve become better friends through the difficulties because you have to figure out who each other is and you have to figure out what… It’s like a marriage, it truly is. Our money is entwined. Our lives are entwined. You know how designers and creative people typically like really connect to what they do as part of their identity. So Lisa and I have only become, I think really stronger business partners and very, very, very good friends.

LS: Yeah.

SSR: So how do you two work together? Where do you land? What’s each other’s biggest strengths? How do you kind of divvy up the workload, so to speak?

LS: Stacy, at the beginning, we did almost everything together. Well, because when we started working together at that former firm, Gina was kind of the designer and I was kind of bringing work in and managing the work. So when we started the company, we thought that’s what… We kind of fell into those same roles, but we were getting a lot of work. So I was just coming in and be like, “Okay, Gina, this is what we got and this is what we’re going to do. See ya.”

LS: But how we work together, Stacy, to answer your question is at the beginning, we did do everything together. We worked on projects together and we learned through trial and error that that’s probably not the best way to work together. So since then… Because we are a little competitive.

GD: And we have very different approaches. We end up in the same space in the end, but we have different ways of thinking. I think it’s helped our success personally a lot.

LS: Yeah.

SSR: I’m sure.

LS: So now we kind of divide projects. We’re not on the same projects at all. We have our own clients that we’ve cultivated and there’s projects, certain projects that Gina gravitates towards, certain projects that I gravitate towards. And some that just come to us because of schedule or how busy we are. But we do always check in with each other and like, “Gina, will you look at this? I really would love your eyes on this. Does this sound right to you? Can you add something to this?” And vice versa.

We share an office and we’ve had a lot of opportunities to have separate offices, but we’ve always come back to the fact that we like to sit together in the same room.

SSR: That’s cute. I love that. Wait. So let’s go back. What made you decide to start your own firm? It takes a lot, right, to kind of be like, “We’re going to do this. We’re going off on our own.” So what gave you that incentive to do it or… What do you call it?

GD: Drive?

SSR: Thank you. I can’t think anymore.

GD: Circumstance and opportunity came together.

LS: Yeah. Gina, that is a perfect way to say it. Our boss, the Marv Cooper retired and Gina and I had always kind of, in the ladies’ room or in the stairway, or walking to get coffee we’d always said, “Wouldn’t it be cool if we had our own firm?” Our boss started to become a little more bottom line driven and a little less about the creativity. And we lost a little bit of that passion along the way. That’s what we all got into this for.

So we thought that why does it have to be mutually exclusive? Why can’t you make money and still be creative? We talked about the kind of firm we would have if we did step out on our own where we would have those two things and make a place that really nurtured creative people and left doors open for people to put big ideas on the table without any strings attached to them. So it was kind of this thing where he retired and we looked at each other like-

GD: Wait, wait. This is where we differ. Your story is so-

LS: Okay, go, Gina.

GD: No, I love it because-

LS: Am I romanticizing?

GD: Oh my God, yes. But I love it because that’s-

LS: All right. Go ahead. What happened?

GD: They dissolved our division and I was so excited.

LS: Right. This is what I was getting to. We looked at each other when he quit, and then you raised your hand and said, “So can we leave now?”

GD: And Lisa’s face was like, “Oh my God.” We were just ready for it. It was also after 9/11. Honestly, Stacy, I think sometimes when you tell your past story, a lot of things that happen slowly seem like they happen in a day. Right? But Lisa is absolutely right in terms of conversations and thinking that way. But it kind of happened slower in my mind in terms of, “Okay, let’s go to unemployment. Oh my God, this is the worst experience I’ve ever had. Let’s not be on unemployment. This sucks.”

GD: So I have a job, let’s share the job. And then we got another job. We just kept putting one foot in front of the other, because if you do sit down and think about it too hard, you’ll scare yourself because… So we just did the work and we just kept putting the money back in the business. And Lisa really had a dream to go into hotels and I was right behind her. And one of Lisa’s strengths is besides many others is she can go out there and she is determined. And if she wants to do something, she’s going to do it. So she found a really great hotel client right off the bat that we started.

LS: Yeah. And I mean like Gina said… Gina, that was really well put because you’re right, it kind of built itself by one block at a time. We never looked too far ahead. We never wrote the business plan. We never did the mission statement or the vision statement because I think we would’ve scared ourselves if we did that. I think we just kept saying, “Okay, let’s do this next job. Can we do this hotel? Yeah, we can do this. Let’s do this.”

GD: Then we did get to a point when we… It’s really interesting. I think it’s our personalities that just drove us to be that way because we did get to a point where we needed that business. We needed that mission. We needed to go back and re-look at our business in a different way. Because once you get past a certain number of people, you become a business. You’re responsible for a lot of other people and you have to run that business like a business with a plan.

LS: Right.

GD: We always say we learned everything the hard way, but I don’t regret it because it’s the only way to learn, I think, personally. I know Lisa probably doesn’t feel that way.

LS: Oh no, I do. I agree.

SSR: What were the early days like? Did you have an office? I remember one story I thought where you guys were like working on somebody else’s office or did I make that up?

LS: Yeah. Oh, you did not make that up. We started out of my spare room for about a hot five minutes and then a friend of mine in my building said, “Hey, someone helped me once, so I’m going to help you. I have a desk. You guys can share it. It’s in my office.” So Gina sat on one side of this one desk and I sat on the other side of the desk. It was under the L tracks. Our conference room was the Starbucks two doors down.

LS: We had a client then that said, “I’m subletting a space on Michigan Avenue. You should sublet from me.” Gina and I were like, “We can’t afford that.” It was $400 a month to share a desk. So we talked ourselves into it and split a desk.

GD: You talked me into it because I was like, “I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to work in that.” Because I was so worried about working with a client in the same office. But you were right. So I mean we had a Michigan Avenue address because you saw an opportunity and we took it right off the bat and that helped a lot to get started.

LS: It gave us credibility before we had the right to have the credibility. When people saw that Michigan Avenue on our business card, it was only the two of us sharing a desk. And then little by little by little, we have the whole floor here on Michigan Avenue. We started very humbly.

GD: I think too, we had some really good clients. We have one client White Lodging that we worked with for years. But what they did for us is they put us in a boardroom immediately. So we watched a genius developer develop projects while we were doing the design with the architect. So that was huge. And then our first big hotel client was the Elysian and that client wanted us to be in every meeting also. So we got to watch the entire development of a hotel from the inside out, which was priceless. And then another thing is just for the listeners out there who are starting their career, there’s downturns that happen here or there. And one of the smartest things we ever did, but I will say not exactly… What do you call it, Lisa like a glory story is that we went out and measured 89 hotels for pips, for a client during the recession. Each of us split up and measured all these hotels. We went into all these different hotel rooms. And at the time it was miserable, but now like looking back at it, it was incredibly awesome because it was like getting 10 years of site visits of all the things that could go wrong in two years.

SSR: Yeah. It’s almost like a masterclass that you did.

LS: It was masterclass.

GD: It was a masterclass too and seeing really crazy things in rooms.

LS: And I will say, Stacy, having you and hospitality design put us on the cover of a magazine early on in our career for the Elysian was one of the most amazing and growing experiences for our business.

GD: It changed a lot.

LS: It changed our… So another, talking about advice is having projects that get publication being in that arena to… I mean, being recognized by HD was so huge early on in our career. I mean that was a game changer for us.

GD: Actually, one of our clients, John Tisch, he brought us in to interview us because of the cover. And he’s not that type person that regularly just like jumps on designers, new designers. He’s very thoughtful.

LS: Very loyal.

GD: Very loyal. So yeah.

SSR: No, that’s amazing. I still remember it like it was yesterday.

LS: We do too. We do too.

SSR: It was one of my favorite covers that we ever did. So I was going to ask you, what do you think was your big break or do you think it was a series of these little moments that helped put you on the map?

GD: I think it’s a series, but we have moments that… And Lisa, you can obviously jump in here, but for me, there was a moment, we did a presentation at Universal and it just went really badly. Actually, John Tisch brought us into the room because he wanted us to do a hotel there and the creative director came in and he… I don’t know, Lisa. What would you say? It was just like, he was so horrified at the beginning of the presentation. He was giving us such a hard time that we just kind of were like, “Okay, wait, let’s stop.”

And we started presenting to him in a way that was more conversational. And then he said, “There’s moments of genius here, but whatever. You guys aren’t ready for this hotel. But hey, if you are interested and you want to come back, try again.” So we tried again, put together another presentation, still didn’t get the hotel. But he said, “I really think I want to work with you guys. I need to work with you. I’ll call you someday.” Right? And we said, “Oh yeah, whatever. He’s not going to call us.”

And he called me in a Thanksgiving. He said, “How would you like to be the restaurant designer of Universal CityWalk?” I’m like, “What? You mean like a restaurant?” He’s like, “No, the restaurants.” So we got like nine restaurants.

SSR: Oh, wow.

GD: I know. So I don’t tell the story as well as Lisa does because I was actually presenting. So I still have… During the presentation. I still have a little bit of like, I don’t remember. I just remember the cover of the presentation and said, “What the hell?”

LS: I think for me and Gin and we talk about this a lot. I mean, things like the cover and getting some of those great jobs have been wonderful for us, but it seems like through our career, Stacy we seem to make those breaks for ourselves. And I don’t know if other people say that a lot, but we don’t seem to get a lot of things that just get dropped in our lap for some reason. We work really, really hard. We make those mistakes. We fall down a lot.

GD: We also have clients for a long time, right, Lis?

LS: Yeah.

GD: I mean that’s really helpful too that we have really longstanding clients.

LS: But we work very hard-

GD: Hard for them.

LS: To maintain those clients and to … They become part of our … I don’t want to say family because that sounds so trite, but we’re very passionate about what we do for them. And we think about them beyond the project at hand. So if we’re thinking about once the project is finished, if we see an article or if they get an accolade, our relationship with them continues after the project goes on. It goes beyond the design for Gina and I. What we do here and what we cultivate here with our designers, with our teams, with our clients, it’s a life. It’s like our life. It’s not just-

GD: It’s a real collaboration.

LS: Yeah. It’s awesome.

SSR: Is there one project that you are most proud of? I mean, I know it’s hard to pick. It’s like your favorite child, but yeah. Is there one that kind of sticks with you?

LS: It’s really hard to say. There’s something about all of them that we do. I think I always go back to the Elysian because it was the first one where a client believed in us enough to take their hands off the wheel and just say, “I don’t care what’s going on in the industry. I don’t care what anybody else says we have to do. I’m going to let you guys do what you think is right.” I’m just going to give you a few words. And even if people come in and say, “You shouldn’t be doing this because that’s not what a five star luxury should do, I don’t care. I’m just going to let you guys do it.”

It was kind of a turning point kind of us on the map kind of a project in that way. So ever since then, it gave us confidence to say, “We don’t have to look to the right or the left to see what anybody else is doing. We’re going to do what we think is the right thing to do.” It kind of gives you confidence in that way.

SSR: Yeah, sure. Gina, anything to add?

GD: I think for me, if I had a project, it would be the foundation in Detroit. It’s kind of a tie between that and the Toothsome Savory Feast Emporium. That’s a big lot of words. But I would stick with Detroit because I love repurposed projects. We have a lot of them under our belt. They’re my favorite because it’s about history, but also bringing it forward and making it something new.

Detroit was just so challenging because I felt so much responsibility because I’m from the area, and I understood the troubles of the city and wanted to be part of the Renaissance and wanted to do it right. And knew that there is a very interesting, fascinating creative industry in Detroit.

SSR: When you’re designing a project, what is the part that you guys like the most, or you ladies like the most?

LS: You know what, Stacy, I do like the beginning of the project the most. I do enjoy that very first like when you’re starting to meet with the client and we’re talking about what the project could be and then the kickoff meeting, you’re meeting with the team, and you’re not quite sure where it’s going to go and you start concepting. I think that concept through schematic is really exciting for me. And presenting those first two or three presentations to the client where you’re super excited to show them where you’ve taken their project. I love those first few presentations to the client. That’s really exciting for me.

SSR: Awesome. Gina, do you feel the same way?

GD: I do. I mean, I think that’s always been a strong point for both Lisa and I, the concepting piece, the storytelling, the whatever, narrative. But I will say that I think it’s so important that design is produced the way the concept is initially thought of. So we have a tendency in our industry to say people like creatives and then people are producers or people are the visionary and then we have the support. But it isn’t like that.  You can have a great idea, but that idea, if you don’t have someone that can actually make it happen, it’s never going to happen. So I love watching people in the office take an idea, and I love watching them turn it into a reality because honestly that is the hardest part. We could all come up with a bunch of great ideas, but if they’re not implemented correctly, then what does that mean? And I think it’s time in our industry that we start recognizing not just the joy of the creation, but some of these amazing people. And that’s when the artists come in. That’s when the details come in. Enjoying what they can bring to the project too. So I have a lot of joy in the process too.

SSR: No, I think that’s a really good point because if you just had people creating great ideas, like you just have a bunch of ideas in a paper, right? But it’s really the talent of the entire team, people on your team.

GD: It is.

SSR: The architects, the contractors, the builders to create these things that can stand the test of time, right?  I think it’s really interesting. Speaking of other things in the industry, what are some of your biggest challenges today? What keeps you up at night?

GD: What doesn’t. I mean, I know, I always say things very boldly like that, but it’s just everything does. I mean, obviously, we have a talent and pool of talent. It’s a good thing to have that we have so much work and we have so much things to offer a supply of people that are actually suffering pretty greatly in the last couple years. But that’s always extremely challenging because I’m feeling, and I’m not sure. I’d love to ask you the question, Stacy, if you’re noticing that the hospitality market is on fire. We’re getting calls. It isn’t small jobs.

It’s these gigantic jobs that are so exciting, but you need people to do them. So I worry a lot that how do we get the right people and get them trained in time and not overwork people because that’s the last thing we want to do. So I stress about that a lot.

LS: Stacy, I also worry about… I get tired of hearing the word supply chain, but I do worry about how that’s going to resolve. Where are we going to get our next maker? Where are our makers going to come from in the future? We can’t just keep relying on the same supply chain over and over and over again. We have to find a way to fix it from the root instead of just saying, “Okay, well, this is going to straighten out eventually or the works will unkink eventually.” What keeps me up at night is thinking about trying to find better ways to do what we’re doing.

GD: Yeah. And then asking ourselves a question of like, “Okay, everybody wants everything from China because it’s less expensive.” But why is it less expensive? Do you know what I mean? It’s like there’s a reason why it’s less expensive.I agree with you, Lisa, trying to get more stuff here. You can go to at Etsy and see some amazing people, but they might not be able to handle a job that has 500 beds or 500 tables. So you’re right.

LS: We have to kind of just think about how we can change the… I don’t know.

SSR: Change the model.

LS: Change the model, Stacy. How do we do that as a whole industry? Our industry is evolutionary and we are trying to… Not that we’re trend makers or setters, but we are watchers of human nature and trying to support what guests want. So we want them to be comfortable in spaces and wanting to be in the places and be awe inspired and excited to be in the spaces that we’re designing. So what does that look like as we are… We just are coming out of an unprecedented era in human history.

SSR: So what does that look like now for a hotel guest? We get asked this question all the time. So we think we know and we’re starting to see people come out in droves.

GD: You know what… Oh, yeah we just have like… Oh, I’m sorry, Lisa, keep going.

LS: That’s like an elastic band that’s just kind of like a coming and going. So expanding and contracting. But what does that really look like? And that’s something that we’re trying to constantly look for. And how much has changed and how much has it… In the end we all are just creatures of comfort and go back to things that we like.

SSR: How has the last two years changed you to as leaders as business women? Especially running a company.

LS: For me personally, I’ve had to be much more open-minded and tolerant to other people’s needs and wants. As a business person running a company, sometimes you have to make rules and boxes, because you’re like, “Well, we can’t do that.” If we’re going to do it for one person, we can’t do that. We have to tow the line. But this pandemic has kind of cracked that a little bit and now we’re kind of like, “Okay, I can’t do that anymore. I can’t do the formula.” We’ve proven the formula can be changed and we have to be open to letting people work from home. Letting people do this. Or else we have to change.

SSR: Gina, anything to add?

GD: Mine was more, and still is more, during COVID there was so many failures and they’re not really failures actually, but it would be one after the other of disappointment, disappointment, disappointment, having to lay people off, struggling to keep the doors open. Everything was so hard. Every job we were up for, there was like 13 really awesome designers that I would love to be in the same room with going for the same jobs. So you would be losing jobs and for the strangest reasons. It wasn’t even because you weren’t qualified, it was because somebody knew somebody and they were friends and they needed some help during this whole thing. So I learned that you’ve just got to work through those failures and you cannot let them bring you down and that you cannot let them define you.

As someone told me recently, and I think I said it, is sit in your misery. You have to understand why it didn’t work out. And hopefully change it in the future. But don’t let it kill your spirit because you need that energy to move forward. And it’s not really helping you to be a perfectionist or try to win everything. That’s how you kind of feel as a business owner because you’re always trying to keep your business going.

I think it just stopped me and made me think it’s okay to make mistakes and it’s okay to not succeed at every single thing I do that the failures are learning experiences and I need to be okay with it. And I need to be okay with it, with my staff too.

SSR: So Gina, you mentioned that you’re now part of KTGY. How did that merger with them come about and why did you think it was the right time for your firm?

GD: So they approached us before the pandemic. And to be honest at first, we knew that they were looking for an interior design company and we looked at their website and like, “They’re architects and they want interiors, but we don’t really do what they do.” So honestly, the first meeting was like, we both went in and said, “Well, we’ll just see what’s going on.” We ended up loving the CEO and the COO so much. We just had so much in common with them and we realized that we were… As Simeone Deary, we were in hospitality and we wanted to grow. And we know how hard it is to grow in a new market. And they were offering us an opportunity to not only grow in a new market, but to be able to offer architecture, and be able to help us grow our branding company. What happened is that they gave us the same deal that they did. They offered us before the pandemic, during the pandemic.

LS: That’s awesome.

GD: So it was very cool and it’s not easy right now because it’s like starting a whole new company. But Lisa and I, I don’t want to say we’re opportunist because that’s not really true. We just see a ton of opportunity with this merger and we’re learning a ton. They’re very supportive in everything we do and it’s us now, not them and us. But like I said, Lisa is on the board, which is really cool. I’m doing a class, which is really cool.

SSR: Kind of.

GD: No, I’m learning so much. I love it. It’s like right up my alley. I’m like, “Lisa, it’s not for you.” But she’s awesome. So she’s helping change from above. Lisa, do you want to add anything to that? Because I rambled on.

LS: I think you said it beautifully. It’s beautiful. I think also, Stacy, Gina and I also realized that the hospitality industry can be very bumpy and a little cyclical in terms of the highs and lows that we realized. Every time there’s a bump in the market, our hospitality industry is very compromised. So that translates to our staff and our cashflow.

So with that diversification of typographies that’s really, we always thought would help us to even out our firm as a whole, our platform. It gives the rest of our firm more growth potential. Their offices are across the United States. More places to spread to if they want to move to other locations. So we just kept seeing win, win, win. And with our cultures being so similar with putting our people first, that’s what they always lead with their people first. That’s what we do.

GD: And they really do.

LS: They really, really do. I think that above all was just like, “If we’re going to do this, this is the best group for us to do this with it.” Just the more we talk, the more we realize this is the right thing for us.

SSR: And the CEO is a woman as well, right?

LS: Yeah.

GD: And she is. She’s-

LS: Amazing.

GD: She walks into a room. We had this discussion. We were on the panel of men versus women, but she walked into the room and she was a hundred percent open. She didn’t hide anything. If there was something to say that was bad about… Or not bad, maybe that didn’t work so great in her company, she said it immediately. Very open, very…

LS: Very respected.

GD: Oh my God. She’s very smart. It’s like she definitely leads with that emotional IQ thing we talked about which she leads with her heart which I admire. She takes a lot of really calculated risks, which I also admire. And on the board with Lisa, there’s also another woman. So they really understand the value of having men and women in the workplace together is really important.

LS: Yeah.

GD: She pushes that management style down really hard. She pushes it down on a lot of people that don’t want to change, and I love watching it. Because I eventually become her biggest fan.

LS: Yeah. She’s very, very well respected.

SSR: That’s awesome. And it’s nice too, to continue that culture that you of all bred and instilled in your team. How big was your team before them? Or I guess how big is your team now?

LS: We are 43, Gina, 44?

GD: We’re 45. And before COVID, we were 60.

LS: Yeah.

GD: Yep. And 60 was a struggle spot. I mean, definitely Lisa and I were at a point where we’re like, like every… I don’t know, Lisa. What was it? Every 15 people you add, you get to a point where, “Oh, shoot. How do we lead this group of people?” It’s not easy. The whole dynamics change. Right before COVID I remember walking out and being like, “Ah, we have a perfectly constructed team for the first time.” Then the next day it was like, poof. Dammit.

LS: But we’re actively seeking now, Stacy. We’re trying to grow the group again.

SSR: Okay. Well that’s awesome. There’s that line, right, between being too big, having to take on too many projects and being that right number, so you have that right mix.

LS: Yeah.

GD: But now we have this huge pool of people.

LS: I think-

GD: We’re not just 45 people actually. I’m working on teams with other people from different offices. Our teams, we have a much bigger pool to pull from when we need expertise, when we need a partner, when we need help or we need an architect on the project that we don’t have enough in our office to hit it. So it isn’t really 45 anymore, it’s 445.

LS: Yeah.

SSR: Big difference.

GD: Yes, it is. It’s huge. Absolutely.

SSR: Did you guys stay in your offices or did you move in with them?

LS: No, we stayed here in our offices.

SSR: Oh, great. You have such beautiful offices.

LS: Thank you.

SSR: And it’s 20 years. You guys started in 2002.

LS: That’s right. This is our 20th anniversary, Stacy.

GD: I know I started when I was eight years old.  I’m such a young executive.

LS: 28.

SSR: We’re so proud of you. Looking back, would you have thought that you would’ve created this?

LS: No way?

GD: No. Mm-mm.

LS: No.

GD: No.

SSR: Got it. All right. Let’s do a lightning round. You ready?

GD: Okay. Oh, no. I don’t know.

SSR: All right. How many hotels have you designed since 2002?

GD: Seriously?

LS: Oh.

GD: Let’s just pull one up. 3,745.

LS: Oh, I’d say…

GD: A lot.

LS: 250

SSR: Number of projects you opened in 2021?

GD: Nine.

LS: 11.

GD: 11?

LS: Yep.

GD: Seriously? What am I missing? We opened so many projects during 2021.

LS: We opened 11.

GD: I’m missing. Yeah, I’m missing. Sorry. Lisa, you better answer these lightning questions.

LS: Okay.

GD: Because I obviously don’t know anything about our company.

SSR: You can answer this one, Gina. What’s the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?

GD: Well, my uncle told me when I was 12 that I should… If I can cheat, I should cheat. I don’t think that was the good advice that I didn’t take that one. I tried it once and I got caught and it was…

SSR: What did you cheat about?

GD: A physics test. Which I needed to cheat just to be in the room. Let’s just say that.

LS: We always say, “Don’t let the highs get too high and the lows get too low.”

GD: I think that, and I guess the biggest advice is going back and be you. You have to be you. Even when I do talk to people about creativity, and they’re like, “What inspires you?” I’m like, “Well, it’s not about what inspires me, it’s about what inspires you.” So really pay attention to those details that come up in your life that make you feel something because those are your high inspirational post.

LS: I go with that too.

GD: Yeah.

LS: Yep.

GD: That’s advice I’ve gotten through. I’d say maybe not a person, but more through like reading stuff from David Lynch or reading things about unique creative people in the world. I’ve really picked that up from them.

SSR: Kind of along the same line. What has been your most memorable hospitality experience? Something you saw that changed you or inspired you? It doesn’t have to be one of your own. A travel, a memory?

GD: Can it be a place?

SSR: Sure.

GD: Why it’s so hard? Oh my God.

LS: I think the first time I went to the HD show in Vegas.

SSR: I’ll take that.

LS: When was the first year you guys did the HD show, Stacy?

SSR: Oh, the first year was ’93.

LS: ’93?

SSR: Yeah. It was supposed to be in 92, but the LA riots canceled it because it was supposed to be in LA to start.

LS: Oh my God. I think I went in ’99 for the first time and it was the first time I had been to Vegas. I think my head blew open. I just think that was one of my biggest hospitality experience. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing.

SSR: Describe your personal style.

GD: I think mine is vintage, personal, very personal. I don’t know. I think I grab and pull things that I find unique that I somehow have this little vintagey feel to them. And my house is the same way. There’s lots of art, lots of books, lots of interesting things I find.

LS: I would say I’m more fashion forward.

GD: You think?

LS: Okay. That’s mean.

GD: No, I’m sorry. I tell her this all the time. She’s always the coolest dress person in the room. Always.

LS: I just love it. I’m not doing it for anything else, but just because I love it.

GD: Why didn’t you go into fashion design though? Have I asked you that question?

LS: No, I don’t know. It never went that way. I wanted-

SSR: All those classes?

LS: Yeah, I wanted to-

GD: It didn’t ring a bell anywhere?

LS: Again, just never thought I could make a career out of it.

SSR: Got it.

LS: Okay.

SSR: Okay. Sorry. Best part of the job?

LS: Ooh.

GD: Teaching people, mentoring people.

LS: I think coming into work. It’s the team.

GD: Watching the light bulb go off when… I feel like that’s how you kind of… You can feel it like you have a purpose. If you have a purpose, everything is good. So our purpose is to teach people what we know and learn from them too at the same time.

LS: It’s giving over that passion to somebody else.

SSR: What’s on your desk?

GD: Job wise?

LS: Hospitality Design magazine. And a giant cup of coffee. I have stacks of magazines and coffee, always.

GD: Well, I can see my blue coat is at my desk.

LS: And my phone and a notebook. Oh, that’s my gig. And Gina’s blue coat.

SSR: Okay. And then what has been your… There’s two questions. There’s this one and then there’s your greatest lesson learned? So kind of different, but your secret to success. What do you think either like a combined one or what do you think has helped you, ladies get to where you are today?

GD: Courage. That doesn’t mean we’re not afraid a lot. It just means we face our fears.

LS: I also think that Gina and I really had a vision for who we are and who we wanted to be, Stacy. And I think that we never really wavered from that. We never looked around and said, “Everybody else is doing this. We really need to keep up with this firm or keep up with that firm.” We just put our heads down and really forged the path that we felt was right for us. And we never, ever wavered from it, ever.

SSR: Which is easier said than done. Right?

LS: It really is.

GD: Mm-hmm.

LS: Because there’s so many great firms out there. There’s this tendency to be a little jealous, if you will and say, “Oh my God, they’re so good. I want to emulate that or I wish I could be like that.” We admire them, but we put our heads down and said, “This is who we are and we’re going to just be us.”

SSR: All right. One more before the last one. What has been the best compliment you’ve ever received?

LS: Gin, what do you think?

GD: I don’t know how much to say. The best compliment I ever got was usually they’re from Lisa.

LS: Yes. Awesome.

GD: Oh God, this makes you talk about yourself, which I don’t love to do. Well, I think the biggest compliment is twofold. One, someone told me I was wicked smart the other day which I love that. Who doesn’t love that. Right?

LS: Yeah. I think I’ve been called a badass before and fierce, and I hang onto those compliments because-

GD: Yes, you should.

LS: Thank you. I’ll take those.

GD: She is badass.

SSR: You are a badass.

LS: Thank you.

SSR: I love it. Okay. So we always end the podcast, even though I didn’t want to end it with the title of the podcast. So what has been your greatest lesson or lessons learned along the way?

LS: I would say my greatest lesson is something that Gina alluded to a little earlier, which is to really be yourself, to find as quickly as you can in this industry to find your voice and be that voice to stick with that voice, finding your… Maintaining a professionalism and this inner design voice and staying with it, cultivating it, learning who that voice is and what that means to you. That is the biggest lesson for me. I found it very late in my design career, but I’m glad I found it. And it really means a lot to actually know who you are as a designer and…

GD: A person.

LS: Yeah, and a person. It’s really a lesson that I cherish.

SSR: Awesome. Gina, anything to add?

GD: Yes. My biggest lesson learned that I’ve always kind of is that everything to me is a learning experience. So no matter what happens, whether you’re doing a job that maybe is extremely difficult or you’re in a difficult situation, or fall on your face at a four-minute presentation, it’s a learning experience. I learn from it. So I think that’s just kind of how I’ve found my way, how I get through things by just telling myself that, how I make the next steps, and that it works, because I’m older.

I’m in my ’50s and I’m telling you it works. You sit down and do the work. That’s the only way you’re going to be good at what you do. There isn’t a shortcut. There isn’t a title change that’s going to change you as a person. The only person that’s going to change you is you and you have to do the work to get there. So spend your life having an end game that’s really idealistic like I just want to learn as much as I can. I want to keep learning because it actually will get you to where you want to go.

LS: Amazing.

SSR: Well, thank you ladies so much for taking the time to chat with me today. It’s been such a pleasure as always.

LS: Thanks, Stacy.