Jul 16, 2024

Episode 135

The Jeffrey Beers International Partners

Michael Pandolfi, Nora Liu-Kanter, and Tim Rooney Jeffrey Beers International Partners

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The industry lost an icon when architect and designer Jeffrey Beers passed away earlier this year at age 67 after a battle with cancer. But Jeffrey Beers International (JBI), the New York practice Beers founded in 1986, will uphold his visionary legacy and continue to shape the hospitality design sphere under the guidance of newly appointed partners Michael Pandolfi, Nora Liu-Kanter, and Tim Rooney.

At the time Pandolfi joined the firm in 2000, JBI resembled a carefree artists’ studio more than an office. Beers took over a closet, turning the open space under a massive skylight in the main room over to his small team. Las Vegas was fast transforming into a high-end food and drink destination then and JBI was smack in the middle of that energetic shift, bringing to life venues like Tabu—the MGM Grand ultra-lounge flaunting tables with holographic images projected onto them—and Rumjungle at Mandalay Bay, a fantastical tropical restaurant and nightclub fusing fire and bongo drums.

“Those were things that Jeff loved—crazy ideas that not everybody would propose to a client,” recalls Pandolfi, noting how Beers regularly encouraged his staff to share such wild notions in an office he treated as an open forum. “Nobody had titles. Everybody was equal. If you had a great idea, everybody would listen to it and it could be executed.”

Here, the three partners share how they plan to carry on their late founder’s legacy.

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Stacy Shoemaker Rauen: Hi, I am here with Michael, Nora, and Tim of Jeffrey Beers International. Thanks so much for joining me today. How are you all?

Nora Liu-Kanter: Great.

Michael Pandolfi: Well, we’re great.

Tim Rooney: We’re doing great. Thanks for having us.

NLK: Thank you for having us.

SSR: Yes. Thanks for being here. All right. So we always start at the beginning. So, Michael, let’s start with you. What is your background? Where did you grow up and were you always a creative kid when you were younger?

MP: Yeah. So I grew up on Long Island. Eventually, made my way into the city after college to live and work. And as a kid, my father was an artist, so he was a woodcarver, a painter. I was always around a creative environment and a creative home. And as a kid, I had a real love for film and movies and I always dreamed of how do they create those sets and immersive environments and science fiction movies and adventure movies. And I always tried to figure out ways, how can you get into that kind of a profession? And then along the way, my father was like, “Well, if you want to try and make some money, try and become an architect.” So I went to architecture school, studied that, and got out of school and went into working for a designer. This was in the ’90s that was a contemporary of Jeff’s.

And once I left that company, well before I left that company, I had met Jeff in an airport. I knew of them because back then in the ’90s there was only a handful of these kind of starchitects that were doing hospitality design. And I recognized them in the airport and I guess we were traveling maybe to similar locations for similar projects. And I just started up a conversation with him and he was such a warm, great guy, and we hit it off. And before he had to run to his gate, he handed me his card and he said, if you’re ever interested, give me a call. I’d love to work with you. So I took him up on that, gave him a call, and ended up joining him and working with him for the past 24 years that I’ve been here with Jeffrey Beers. And then I’ll handed over to Nora.

A marble- and white oak-clad front desk and a plaster mural greet guests at the Omni PGA Frisco Resort in Texas

NLK: Hi, I’m from Taiwan. So I grow up in Taiwan. And when I was young, I always loved to draw and my father actually is a general contractor, so he often bring home the blueprint. Back then old-school, we still have blueprint and I was curious. I was like, “What are those paper, it’s blue and with all this line?” I’m just curious. But I never know what it was and he didn’t elaborate that much. But I just love to draw. So I always find a paper and want to draw something. So I end up turn around and draw tons of stuff on the paper and got my father really mad. But that’s the way from my grow up. I always the way how I release my stress, because in Taiwan, everybody studied so hard for exam. It’s really everybody tried to go into the good college and it’s just not fun doing the study, not something you’re passionate about. And always relax me and bring me some joy.

So when I went to college and everybody want to be a doctor and lawyer and all that, I have no direction. I’m like, I’m thinking about, “I just want to have a little bit fun and do something I like.” So I picked the art and design, which is not thinking about how am I going to make money in the future and all that, but I do enjoy it. And from there, I start my searching of a career. So I really love art. So I went and study more and try to find a job as art-related. So I teach then I didn’t like the teaching. I try and then I’m like, “How am I going to support myself?” So I start searching and ask people wrong, and my sister, well she was a designer also. So my sister is like, “You can come and work with me a little bit and see how you like and maybe you can make a little bit money out of it.’.

So I start working with her and she’s an interior designer. She does a lot of residential jobs. So I start helping her, and the same time, going back to school for design, a little bit more advanced design, sort of related class and schooling. And that’s how I all started and working in Taiwan for four year. Then I moved to America because I married my husband. Which then accidentally my past is always not straight, accidentally I find out my first job, which is with Michael, working with Michael in a company only doing restaurant design. And I was like, “Oh, wow, it’s so special. There’s a company only doing restaurant design,” because when my past experience, we do a lot of variety from residential, from the office, from a little bit hotel, everything, but never was specific. So I enjoy so much that there’s a little bit of discovery.

Then I went on working for Rockwell Group for a few years because I want to try different sort of typology of the work and also experience, but the Rockwell Group, it’s too big for me. I’m searching the home where it can be a bit more intimate, a little bit more studio light, a little more like artist, how you create things with the intimate group. So one day I was running to Michael and Michael say, “What are you doing?” And I said, “Well, I’m at Rockwell, but I really want to try something different.” And he’s like, “This is what we do in Jeffrey Beer,” and it just sounded so good like, “Why don’t you come over?” I said, “Great.” So that’s how I ended up being Jeffrey Beer and it’s been 21 years and it’s amazing. I have so many partner and good friends here and this is really my home and that’s how I find the home. Yeah, long journey.

SSR: All right. Last but not least, Tim.

TR: So I was born in Chicago, but at a young age I moved to Michigan, the Detroit Area since where I grew up on a lake. My mother is actually very artistic. She wouldn’t create art herself as in out of the blue, just going to hurt her own creation. But she was very talented at sort of tracing things or looking at a photo and sort of copying it. When we were very young in Illinois, we had all three of my brothers or two of my brothers and I, we shared one room and it had a big huge wall. And my two older brothers, they were interested in football. So my mother drew on the entire wall. She did this entire football scene in pencil.

And she had just finished all the pencil work and that’s when we moved. So unfortunately, we had to get rid of that. But she’s done other things in her existing home now that I grew up in and Michigan as well. So that sort of always instilled in me a little bit that, but at a very young age, I was always drawing floor plans, house plans. I was like at five, six years old, my family tells me I’m sketching on paper and going on trips and still sketching house plans and interested in the grocery store. They used to have those magazines where they’d have sort of builder their houses like floor plans and images of houses, and I’d always ask my mom if I could get one of those magazines to look at. So always interested in me. But then I went to school for architecture as well. Both my brothers are engineers, so I sort of led into that sort of discipline, went to school and through school, some internships as well as graduating from school.

And I really worked in the architecture industry, but through that some connection, I had the opportunity to come work at Rockwell and that’s where I met Nora, and that was really my transfer from architecture proper to the hospitality industry. And I never really envisioned myself in that world. It really wasn’t what we studied or looked at in school. But when I got to Rockwell and the amazing projects and sort of the fun and excitement that hospitality brings, it really was like an eye-opener and wow, this is the place for me and really what I saw my whole future being. And so we worked closely, Nora and I, at Rockwell for several years, maybe about four years or longer. And then Nora left, went to join Jeff with Michael, and pretty soon, she was contacting me saying, “Are you happy? You want to come over.” And saying it’s a great place to work and how wonderful Jeff is. So we set up an interview and that was that. So that was also 21 years ago. 20, 21 years ago. So it’s been a wonderful journey ever since.

SSR: That’s amazing. What was it like meeting Jeffrey for the first time? I know Michael, you touched on it a little bit, but Tim, for you and, Nora, for yourself.

NLK: I mean, Jeff, first of all, I’m a little bit shy in the meeting new people and every interview I went to, doesn’t matter what interview, I’m always so nervous and he really put me at ease and that saves a lot. I met him, he’s just so warm and the way he talked and I feel like we are artists that talking about each other, about the idea about what we all like, we’re like a friend. It is never about the formal interview, which is the typical question, and that really drew me into this company, into him. I feel like this is the right person I want to work for and that’s very important for me. So that’s my experience with Jeff.

MP: Yeah. That day when I bumped into Nora on the street and suggested to come work for Jeff, and I could see the look on her face that she was stressed. So I knew she needed to get into a more creative environment or at least a little bit more fun environment.

TR: Yeah. And for me, Jeff moves fast, when he wants somebody to come in, he moves pretty quickly. So I feel like it was pretty rushed between speaking with Nora and setting up an interview to meet Jeff for the first time. So I remember throwing together a quick resume and I guess a portfolio or something. It’s been so long to remember, but I went in and this was when we were, the office was at 17th Street and 5th Avenue at the time. So it was the top floor. It was a very small office. I think it was maybe only 12 of us, max when I started.

NLK: Yeah. I loved that office.

TR: Probably, very small. It was a great small space.

MP: Jeff’s office was a closet.

TR: Yeah. Literally, Jeff’s office was a closet. That’s how generous he was. We had the open space. It had a beautiful skylight, basically, almost half the main room was skylight, which was really just wonderful and filled with light every day. And so it was a great collaborative environment. But meeting with Jeff, as Nora said, I had the same experience. He’s just so easygoing, so warm, and I think probably having been recommended from Nora who he already knew at that point, it just went so smoothly. And I don’t know how long it was, but I just remember at the end he was like, “When can you start?”

SSR: And talk a little bit about those early days? As you said it was a smaller office. I mean, this was two decades ago. What were you working on? What was it like? What was the process back then? And then we can talk a little bit about how it’s grown.

MP: I mean, back then, we were working on projects in Las Vegas where that’s when in Vegas a lot of the casinos started hiring outside talent to design the hospitality spaces. So we had worked on a space at Mandalay Bay, we worked on Rumjungle, which is this crazy space with a giant bar with bongo drums and fire that you have to go through at the entry. And those were things that Jeff loved, crazy ideas that not everybody would propose to a client. And that was some of the way he wanted us to not be afraid to suggest wild ideas because it was an open forum, especially in the office. Nobody had titles. Everybody was just equal. And if you had a great idea, everybody would listen to it and could be executed and used. It wasn’t a senior designer, studio designer was just a free-for-all, which was good at that time for that office.

TR: Yeah. Being a small group and working on F&B restaurants and clubs like Rumjungle, they’re so fast-paced, they’re such a great energy to them. And just remember traveling to Vegas with Jeff and he just gets so excited about all the projects and everyone was excited and just really, it created an environment where you can be open and really just express yourself.

NLK: Yeah. I think that’s really a key is Jeff really want us to express our design and he is always a very nurtured person. So he never was like, “Well, this is the way you do it.” He helps to think through and he’s a sounding board when we have idea. So that’s always so wonderful work with someone like that. And I think this is sort of the culture and DNA for this company and we want to continue that. That’s sort of an important element for us. Yup.

TR: It felt like a studio of artists, especially that first office, that small office. And Jeff really gave everyone the ability to express their own voice as Nora was saying.

SSR: What was the project? I’m trying to remember. It’s how I met Jeffrey that there was the technology on the tables.

MP: Yeah, that was at MGM.

NLK: I remember when he made you that.

MP: Yeah. So that was a ultra lounge when those were a big thing, a smaller nightclub that was definitely more of a VIP feel to it. But he had come up with this idea to have video projections in the space and how can they be interactive? And at that time, the technology barely existed and he went on this hunt to find company in Canada that had the technology and-

NLK: The company did something for Cirque Du Soleil.

MP: It was a company that worked for Cirque Du Soleil, creating a lot of their video effects and set designs. So we married up with them and had the tables in the lounge where there was a video projection where it was a fish swimming or a woman walking by, really wild things at that time nobody had really seen before.

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SSR: Yeah. I remember that like it was yesterday, which is crazy. You guys are always ahead of your time. What is one of your favorite memories of working with Jeffrey? Something that really epitomizes who he was?

MP: Well, I mean, one memory was we went to see a project that we were working on in Pennsylvania and we had meetings all day, a client invited us out to one of his restaurants, steakhouse, and the client just kept ordering all I think everything on the menu and almost every bottle of red wine possible and kept pouring. And it was probably me, a couple of people from my office, Jeff, a couple of people from the client’s side. And towards the end of the meal, the client was like, “Oh, I got this great idea. Why don’t you guys come over and sleep over at my house instead of going to a hotel? So I was never heard of anything like that before. So I was kicking Jeff under the table like, “Jeff, we can’t do this, we can’t do this.” Because the next day, we had a whole set of meetings with contractors to go over budgets and the client wanted to continue to party at his house. So Jeff was like, he just looked at me and said, “We have to please the client. If that’s what he wants, we have to do it.” So we ended up going over there and it was the client. He got there and he’s like, “Okay. Michael, you’re going to sleep in my son’s room.” And then one of the junior designers with us was like, “You’re going to sleep in my daughter’s room.”

And Jeff, he was lucky, he got a nice guest room, and we woke up the next morning and the client was just almost looking at us like, “How did you guys get here?” And Jeff just rolled with it and just had fun with him, with the client. And it wasn’t a stressful situation other than it was just a fun, crazy thing, which is thing usually what would happen with Jeff if you traveled with him on business, always something unexpected would happen.

NLK: That’s my experience, too. I mean, Jeff just enjoy and love to party. I remember that’s why he has so much connection with all the chef. You know how chef, his wife, my husband is a chef, they work late, they work hard and they party hard. They got to have a way, and usually their relax hour is always very late. So I remember going to meet with the chef as a client and have to figure out hanging out with them and Jeff also say, “Oh, that’s one more bottle. One more bottle.” They’re very hospitable, which is wonderful. And Jeff is always like, “Yeah, let’s go. Yeah.” And it was really, really fun but tiring at the same time. But I learned that lifestyle also from my husband, so it’s not surprise for me, but it’s great. You met so many wonderful people and really honest and true personality people and it’s wonderful. It’s very memorable.

TR: I feel like we’re making Jeff sound like you only drink alcohol. Because, unfortunately, my story also ties into that.

NLK: Hospitality.

TR: Exactly. I mean, as Michael said, traveling with Jeff was always a great experience. It was really in the day of business and projects and stress and all that. It was really when you went on a trip with Jeff that he could really let go. All the barriers went down. He was there with you. It was like you were the only person in the world, you’re one-on-one with him, and it was always so pleasant. And so my favorite sort of experience with Jeff is really my last trip that I took with Jeff. It was August of last year. We were going to Vancouver. We had a client whose main office is based out there, and so we were scheduled to go there. Jeff had spent the prior weekend in the Hamptons and had forgot his passport going to Canada.

And so he asked me to swing by his building on my way to the airport to pick up the passport, which he had left with the doorman downstairs. And so I did that and which meant that we needed to meet on the security or pre-security side of the airport before going through, we’d normally meet at the gate or whatever. So we met at the gate, the check-in area and checked in and in the card, Jeff was texting me like, “Have you been to the TWA terminal? The renovated TWA terminal?” And I said, “Yes.” He said, “Well, I haven’t,” and he’s like, “Can we check it out?” And I’m looking at my watch, I’m like, “Well, do we have time?” I’m like, “Well, let’s see how fast check-in goes and we’ll see if we have enough time.” And we got there. Check-in was super quick. So we’re like, “Okay. Let’s go over and check it out.”

Jeff is a lover of food, so once we got over there, he is like, “I think Jean-Georges has a restaurant here.” He was like, “Instead of grabbing food in the JetBlue terminal, let’s grab food here and get a nice meal before we get on that long flight.” “Okay. Sounds great. Love it.” And had a great conversation. Had maybe a martini, maybe there was a second martini order, by that point, I’m looking at my watch like, “Okay, Jeff. We really got to go.” We quickly got the check, raced our way through security, and of course, it’s the last gate at the end of the terminal, so we’re hustling our way knowing that we only have less than 15 minutes before the flights has to takeoff. So we’re like, “We got to book it.” And so we did. We made it there. But by the time we got to the gate, we noticed the doors were closed to the JetBlue and we’re like, “Oh.”

So we were like, “Well, we’re on this flight.” He said, “Yeah, I’m sorry, the flights closed.” And we’re like, “Well, the airplane’s still there, so can we get on this flight? Can you open the doors for us? We’re here now. It’s still 15 minutes before the flight takes off.” And they do JetBlue things. They talk to somebody, somebody else, somebody else. And of course, “Nope, they can’t open it up.” So we ended up having to rebook flights. And I grew up, actually my father, he worked for United Airlines, so I grew up flying standbys. So I’m used to sort of on-the-fly finding one airport to connect to another airport to connect to another one. So our wonderful travel agent found us a flight through San Francisco, that sort of a red-eyed San Francisco, and then an early morning flight to Vancouver. So we did that. So that was a whole journey and trying to find a place to grab a few hours sleep in San Francisco in the middle of the night, but it was always those adventures that were just so wonderful to have with him.

SSR: Yeah, 100%. I can just imagine him. It’s almost been three months since he’s unfortunately passed away. I mean, there’s always so many conversations about passing the torch even before too early of a death like Jeffrey. So had you started this conversation already? And now with his passing, how are you going to continue this legacy that he’s created, this very rich legacy? I feel like everyone who knows Jeffrey loves him and has always admired and respected his work and all that you guys do in the studios. So how do you hope to continue that? I know it’s still fresh, but if you can talk a little bit about that, that would be great.

MP: I think prior to last summer before he got sick, this was already all in the works where he was already discussing with us about the partnership and he had brought in a new COO and a new CFO, and the idea was to make the company more successful by setting all people up that work here with the right support staff and the support and especially for the future. And luckily, he did that and he was preparing us, but he also prepared us for this, for working with him over the past 20 years. We learned a lot from him and we experienced ups and downs, recessions, different things in the market that affected the work and we saw how he handled it and we learned a lot from him. I think that’s part of the advantage of the three us having worked for him so long. And also the three of us having worked with each other for so long, we already were set up for this.

NLK: And we definitely going to continue that sort of creative culture here. That’s very important and that’s really the core of our company. And being surrounded now, we have a lot of designers now, have very different background. Some of them are more graphic-oriented and we even have a very good photographer in the office, and myself, I really love the ceramic bar. So it’s just like we all have a different part of the skill and talent and we really want to flourish that and really bring JBI more of the rich, diverse and talent in together to create a project. It’s more interesting or more of the extent of the creativity on that part. And that really is continue on with how we start with Jeffrey. I know the company grow bigger, but we don’t want that sort of a creativity, the culture to change in a sense. So it’s a balance. It’s like you want to be successful on sort of a structural-wise, but you also want to be creativity side to be flourished. So-

TR: I think one of the best things of working with Jeff was always, I think as we said earlier, that he allowed us to have our own voice. It was really a partnership. I know there’s other firms and other star designers that really set the course. They really sort of dictate what the vision’s going to be, but Jeff really allowed us, especially the three of us, being with him for over 20 years each to really have our own voice and to really set the design for all the projects. We would review them with him and he would give his input, but he really let us drive the direction of the projects. And I think that was really at his core that he really wanted us to flourish.

And going some years back, we actually changed our logo from Jeffrey Beers International to JBI, and it was always, Jeff had been for the last five, six years really thinking of how this company can have a legacy and try to move it from Jeff, one person-centric to an entire studio, a design studio. And so several years back, he started saying to all of us that he wanted to start some sort of partnership program, something to really get us engaged and to help him carry the company forward in the future. And as Michael said last year, he started bringing on a COO, CFO to provide foundation for everything. And I think it was really a way of making it sort of self-sufficient, and whether he was sort of prescient and prescient in his condition, I don’t know, but he really set us up for success before he got sick. And we’re just so grateful for that.

SSR: Yeah. And, Michael, you said you learned a lot from him. What do you think is, I’m sure there’s many lessons, but one of the greatest things that he taught you?

MP: I think he really taught me how to interact with people. He always showed everybody kindness and that you were on the same level. He didn’t ever talk down to people. His door was always open. If you wanted to talk to him about anything, he was always available. He would even come around the office and he would stop by people’s desks and just to drop in to say hello and see how they’re doing. Talk socially, considering how busy he was and traveling and meetings. He always found the time to connect with the staff one-to-one. And so he didn’t necessarily feel like a boss. He felt like a contemporary. And I think that’s part of the success of the company.

SSR: Yeah. Nora, what about you?

NLK: I would say, Jeff is so adventurous, so he never say no. And I think I learned a lot from him on that because you never know what the opportunity bring you and you got to just try it and think outside the box and do it and explore it. And that really inspired me. Sometime, I’m stuck, I just try to do something else or go explore something else and then come back and rethink this question or the challenge. And that really helped me in terms of how I create.

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SSR: And so, okay, let’s go back. Because you guys were saying how you’ve grown and kept this creativity culture. So back the smaller studio, how did you grow? I know you all weren’t partners the whole time, but you’ve watched the company grow, so how has it grown and can you talk a little bit about what the company culture is today and how many people you have and how you set up the studio? Because I know every firm does it a little bit differently.

TR: Yeah. Well, when we first started, again, we were only 12 people and it was more of just everyone’s artist. And Michael said nobody at that time had titles, so it was very sort of free at that time. But then from 17th Street, 5th Avenue, we moved to 20th and 5th, and that was a much bigger office, and that was when we really grew a lot bigger and started to form studios at the time. So we had maybe three or four studios. Michael had his studio and Nora and I had our studio, and there was one or two others over time. And it worked well because we were big and we each had our own sort of project typology that we worked on. And it really flowed that way.

During the pandemic or just prior to the pandemic, we decided to move downtown to our current office at 7 World Trade. And it’s huge office, floor to ceiling glass. It’s a great, amazing views. It’s complete opposite of our last office, which was in a penthouse of a building. It was very small windows. It was beautiful space, but very, very different than now. And so we’re just under 50 people and we’re finding now that it’s easier for us to transition to more of a team structure than a studio structure. We have some big projects and small projects, and we really want to foster the creativity in all of the people that work here. So we don’t want to stick people into one category or one project type. So if we have a really big project, we like to break up the different scope areas into different groups, everybody gets to do something a little different. So that’s working pretty well for us now to have these teams. It’s very flexible and people move in and out of project type and hopefully make them feel like they’re expressing that creativity.

SSR: And how do the three of you work well together? What are your strengths and weaknesses and why do you think also, Jeffrey, put you three together, not only your commitment, but he always knew people so well. So I feel like he somehow picked you all for the right reasons.

MP: I mean, there’s really no egos amongst us where we’re not competing for projects or I want to have that great project or it’s really an open discussions that we have when we need to. We know each other because we’ve worked with each other for so long and been through so much together that we there’s almost like an unspoken word where you know what they’re going to think or say. And there’s a lot of it was trust because he knew us and he trusted us just like we trust each other. So it’s inherited that from him.

NLK: So we all work together so we could at all different aspects. It’s like small office, you have to wear all different hats as we grow bigger, because we are now more in the leading role, then treating the big project, we take a little bit on a little bit different responsibility. I will be more sort of pay attention on the design, but when we review things, we all have a voice. But I will be more of the day-to-day, more keeping and leading the team on the design, that aspect and as a team will be more, I’ll let you speak for it.

TR: I think that really, for Jeff, it was all about relationships. And I think that he taught us all, he’s such a great person and he taught us that in our day-to-day, in our business life, we also want to be good people. And we want to establish good relationships with clients, be open, be fair, be honest with them. And I think that he’s instilled in that value in all three of us. That’s why I think he put us all forward as partners.

I mean, again, we’ve all been here 20 years, but it’s really, I think that he knew that his core DNA of how he wants relationships run with clients, how he wants projects run, he had instilled that in us over the last 20 plus years. And, yeah, we divide up the projects and we each sort of play our own role or just sort of played our own strengths. But we really try to, at this time now being partners, play a bit of the role that Jeff had played, which was always overseeing the team, reviewing it, but still allowing that, fostering the creativity with that group. So we still try to do that transitioning to that role.

MP: Yeah. I mean, a big thing he would always say is that he was not a Black Cape designer, meaning that it wasn’t his way or the highway type thing. So he was always about what does the client want? How do we design it for the client? Not necessarily designing it for our own egos. And I think that’s something that we’ve also carried on in our careers, whereas there’s others that where you could have that issue with, where they want to be the star or be the lead and you could run into problems. But Jeff really liked to have people around him that that could collaborate and work together.

SSR: Speaking of collaborations, let’s talk through some of the projects you’ve recently, recently completed. I know, Tim, you came to Expo to talk about Fontainebleau in Las Vegas, which was not a small undertaking by any means.

NLK: Yeah. Which is one of us all work on there. That is a huge project.

French restaurant La Fontaine in the Fontainebleau Las Vegas is rendered in a soft color palette

SSR: Do you want to talk a little bit about your role there and what you wanted to create with the Fontainebleau team?

TR: I think the Fontainebleau story really starts in Miami, and we had been selected to redesign or to renovate the old Fontainebleau Miami location. And when we went to the site, it was pretty bare and really needed renovation. Morris Lapidus had designed the building and Jeff Soffer had acquired the property and really wanted to bring it back to its original glory. So a lot of the sort of design ethos were really created for that project. And that’s when we established Jeff, especially established that great relationship with Jeff Jeff Soffer. So the first go around of Fontainebleau, Las Vegas, it’s a very long history. It started in 2006, I think when we started designing it. And then the recession happened and the project went on hold for many years.

And it wasn’t until January of 2021, Jeff got a call from Jeff Soffer, I think he had just left the room signing the deal to get back possession of the property. And he called Jeff, he said, “It’s on, we’re doing it. We got it back. Let’s meet in Vegas.” And, yeah, it was a very fast process. He really wanted to open. It was really two and a half years from start to finish of the project, which is very fast.

I mean, we did have, the building was already built with the concrete. The tower had already had the glass put on it, but all the interiors were really just open concrete floors. So we really had a lot of work to do with that, but-

NLK: I mean, as it goes so fast, I think Jeff Soffer really trusts that Jeff can get the essence of what’s the phantom rule, as a brain, as people’s memory, how do you bring that to Vegas? And that’s the trust, be able to go so fast and be able to come out right in a way. And that’s really the key. That’s what I think. Yeah.

MP: It was definitely, if you look at Miami and Las Vegas, the DNA from Miami, definitely peers in Vegas, and there were other design firms that were working on other areas and they really had to take our lead so that all the spaces still worked together well. And Jeff loved that brand and he really wanted it to be successful and make it so that those two properties really had a connection.

TR: I think it was really our first high-profile project Fontainebleau Miami. I mean, we had the Cove at Atlantis, which is also very high-profile about the same time. But I think that Miami was really a really successful project for us. Jeff Soffer, when he started the project again in, to Michael’s point, there was he wanted to put a collection of the best-in-class of designers of the world, but he wanted it to appear like it was designed by a single firm. So he put the people he trusted JBI and some others really in charge of working closely together to make sure that it all spoke as it was one voice.

SSR: And what was it like working with all the different designers and bringing what you started in Miami to Las Vegas?

TR: They’re best-in-class. So they’re all amazing designers. It was really effortless because they’re all so talented. They have such experience within this market. Really, it was just a matter of having a few coordination sessions, talking about materiality, color palettes, making sure nothing was going to sort of clash together. But it was really actually a fun experience. We had to interact very closely with David Collins in the lobby where it met sort of the entry to the casino floor, and we went through floor pattern conversations, terrazzo, what’s the color? What’s the pattern? They all needed to work harmoniously together. I really enjoyed it.

SSR: Yeah. It keeps you on your toes. Another brand that you’ve also helped reimagine too was the Hard Rock brand first in New York and also Athens. What has it been like not only working with Hard Rock and helping to evolve that brand, but in general it must be fun to take an iconic brand and rethink it for 2.0 and the next generation of what it’ll be?

NLK: Yeah. I think Hard Rock, I mean, again, they really believe Jeff really understanding New York, because this is a really first very different sort of a chapter for the Hard Rock. It’s really almost like a reinvented Hard Rock, but still have to keep their core spirit, the main user, how to tie into the music into this sort of the experience into the hotel. So Jeff is such a New Yorker and the way he lived, the way he understand New York. So I think that trust for us to be able to develop really new, truly New York-driven sort of a Hard Rock, that’s really a key.

TR: And we studied, actually, the location of the Hard Rock Times Square Hotel was really the first project where we could help to evolve the brand, as you said. And that was on MusicRow. And so we really able to take inspiration and apply maybe before where there were a physical guitar or very sort of interpretation of music and entertainment and the design. We tried to be a little bit more abstract, more artistic about it. And so the lobby is almost as if you’re inside of a musical instrument. Sort the wood plating. You’re in a guitar or a wood instrument. And there’s sound waves in the floor, but they’re very abstract. They’re sort of carved into the marble. And always ways of sort of hinting at it, hinting at the history of Hard Rock, but just bringing it to that next elevated level, bringing it to the New York level. We’re all New Yorkers and we all really wanted to instill what that energy of New York is inside that proper.

NLK: And also, like Tim said, the artistic expression is you get the essence of what the music is really about, rhythm and movement. So how do you create art and visualize? And that’s one of the key, when we express the design, as you say, the pattern, we create always a certain movement. We sort of lead you to something or make you move. So that’s a fun way to do it in an artistic way to do it without being so literal in a sense. Yeah.

TR: And Athens is great because Athens, the other New York project really give us a chance to apply that same thinking and a much larger integrated resource, including casino and guest rooms, all of that, to really elevate that Hard Rock brand and make it feel different to the viewer and make them think differently of Hard Rock because we know it’s a great brand and we want everyone to just love it as much as we do.

MP: And bringing in that theatrics to it. I mean, Hard Rock is known for their live music and the cafes, but it needed to be a departure from that, go away from the pub feel, but create an environment that Jeff would always say, “A space that everybody looks great in.” The lighting is great, the music is great. A lot of that comes from his club days. He owned nightclubs, he owned restaurants. Some of our best office Christmas parties were at his restaurants that he owned, because he took over the place and anything could happen. So he really lives and breathed hospitality, and that’s really what, especially Hard Rock, trying to bring more of that into that brand.

NLK: The entertainment.

At La Mar Dubai in the Atlantis the Royal hotel, natural materials are punctuated by vibrant Peruvian-inspired artwork

SSR: . Little less entertainment, but still about expanding that hospitality experience you all just worked on or working on the Ritz-Carlton Residences in Boston, which we see so many new, I mean, branded residences aren’t new, they’ve been around forever, but just the influx of them lately. And I think mostly due to financing and getting things off the ground, but also I think people want to have that home that feels like a hotel. And so talk a little bit about doing this project and then also what you think about the resident branded residences in general?

TR: Our first multifamily residential project was one in West End here in Manhattan. And our client from the Plaza Food Hall El-Ad Group had brought us onto that project. And they really wanted to bring hospitality design into the residential market, especially with every building having huge amenity spaces, all these offerings to them. So it was really wonderful sort of experience for us to bring that experience into the residential world. And as you said, everybody wants to have their home feel like a hotel or have that hospitality experience. So it’s really been a natural evolution for us to work on branded residences. It’s really brought our experience with hotel design, residential design, hospitality design in general, all together into one thing. So it’s really perfect for us in that sense.

And working with a brand like Ritz-Carlton in Boston, creating this beautiful tower on top of South Station in Boston. It’s a wonderful iconic project for that. And Ritz-Carlton’s an amazing brand and they bring so much to the table as far as luxury to associate their brand to the residences. It’s wonderful.

NLK: Yeah. And I think it’s interesting idea why people want to bring hospitality into the West. And I feel like especially live in the urban area and especially in New York, your apartment is only so big when you want to socialize and stuff. I think the idea of bring those amenities, it’s sort of expands your living room. It’s amazing. It expands your yard or garden. You could invite your friend and family to get together without just cramping your apartment. If you have a bigger event or party and it’s really fell like home, feel like a part of your house. It’s sort of like you have a house, but really not a house.

SSR: Okay. So let’s talk a little bit too about what has been, I think, individually your most challenging project and why or maybe one that you all worked on that you learned the most? I know you learned something from every project. What has been one that you think you have learned the most from?

MP: A few years ago, we started to get asked to work on cruise ship projects to do the interiors. And Princess approached us to design more of the major components of it, similar to how we would go into a resort and design the key, like the lobby and all the spaces around it and the restaurants. And they approached us to do that. We had never done anything like that before, but they wanted a fresh eye to it and we really collaborated with them. And again, there were other designers on it that really had to follow our lead with the DNA so that the ship looked like it was continuous. One designer handled it from one under the ship to the other. And it was tough because ships take a long time to build. We started working on it in early 2018 in February, just past February was when it was christened.

It was the Sun Princess Princess from Princess Cruise Line. So it was a long journey along the way with COVID in the middle of it and trying to do a lot of that design work and drawings and everything from people’s basements. And so it was very interesting. In the end, it all came together and it looks wonderful. But that market, the cruise ship market is something that is going to be really big with interiors. A lot of designers are getting involved in it just because of the hospitality end of it. And that the guests on the ship are really discerning customers and they want the best.

TR: And all the codes are different, right? You have so many requirements that are so unique to the cruise industry. You really have to go to school again for all of the cruiser ships.

NLK: And you design five years ago that they still thought what they appear.

MP: Yes. Right. So you have to design looking ahead, thinking will this still hold itself up five years from now? And that’s a challenge. That was something that we were always asking ourselves while we were working.

SSR: Is there a dream project for you all? Something you haven’t done that you’d love to do?

MP: A resort on Mars or something like that?

SSR: Going to space?

TR: A Space Station hotel?

NLK: It seems everybody’s going to space, right?

MP: That could be a big market.

TR: I think for us, we really want to grow into the market, the luxury hotel market, especially, and working with one and only on several projects, including a new resort in Costa Rica. But I think really sort of getting further into that market is really where we’d like to head, at least as part of our group in the future.

NLK: And our love for restaurant. We always want to continue that because I love the relationship with those chefs. So every restaurant is always an adventure truly for me.

SSR: And you just redid the Daniel Boulud, correct?

NLK: And we are in the process designing [our sixth] Milos.  And the Milos is a challenge, the restaurant is so minimal and so simple, but sometimes, the simplest one is the hardest one. You really have to pay attention, the proportion, the shape, and even the simplest detail, how to make it beautiful because it was just nowhere to hide, as I say it. So that’s something.

SSR: This is your sixth Milos. You’ve worked with Daniel Boulud, you have multiple repeat clients. What do you think is your secret to success in terms of successful collaborations and having the clients come back to you?

TR: I think listening. I think it’s really critical that we listen to them. And as Michael said, Jeff has never been a Black Cape designer. We’ve never been Black Cape. We don’t come to the table saying, “No, this is what your restaurant has to be. This is what your hotel has to be.” And I think that especially with restaurants, especially with the amazing chefs that we work with, they have such a vision that they incorporate into their food. And we always want to make sure that that story, the quality or the attention to detail or the way they think about their cuisine applies to the design as well, and that carries through. And I think it’s all about listening and making sure that their vision matches our vision and we never sort of step over that.

NLK: And we are in together. And when there’s an issue, I think like Tim say, roll your sleeve and get it done and get it done right. And that service also very important because that will instill the trust in the future. Then they will always come back to you because they know you can resolve the issue and you can get it done right. And that’s how it is.

TR: Yeah. And whether that’s installing the decorative light fixture right before opening up on a ladder or moving banquettes around in the dining room to find an even better layout for the space.

MP: Well, I mean, bookshelves to put books up on the shelves.

TR: Really being hands on. And that speaks so much, I think, to these chefs and any client that you’re really in it, hearts in it, and you’re willing to really step up to that.

Wooden archways frame the main dining room at Peter Luger Steak House at Caesars Palace Las Vegas

SSR: And how do you teach that to your team? How do you instill that kind of hard work ethic and that all the details really matter, especially last minute?

TR: Well, that’s very difficult, especially today. I mean, post-pandemic, there’s such a strong sort of desire to have a work-life balance and so much to talk about that and work from home. And so it’s much more of a challenge today than I think it used to be. But I think the only way you can really show people is to demonstrate and just lead by example. I mean, that’s what Jeff did to us and that’s what we try to do to them to bring them to the site show that we’re moving that table around, we’re doing that, we’re not just sitting back directing somebody to do that. It’s really all hands on deck and-

NLK: It’s fun. Sometimes it’s so excitement. It is like try to set up the restaurant before you open or hotel before you open and Simon, it’s like a team. You try to do this installation altogether. It’s actually a lot of fun for me. I hope other feel the same way.

MP: And we like to include in meetings to include interns and people that are working on the project that might not get the glory on it. And it’s important that they get some recognition working on these projects because it is a lot of work between this initial concept, the imagery to space planning to selecting materials, renderings, construction drawings, coordinating with all the consultants, the CA during when it’s being built and it’s too expensive having to value engineer it. And it’s a long process. And what earlier I was talking about I had this love for movies and everything. It almost is like that where it’s the opening night of the restaurant is opening night for a movie where all the different clients, client’s there, all the consultants are there, the teams are all there where you get to celebrate it and be successful and forget about the hell you just went through.

NLK: Yeah. And ready for next one.

MP: Ready for the next.

SSR: Yeah. Keep it going. I guess that’s a good question. What keeps you passionate? What keeps you going? What gets you up every day?

NLK: I think people. I don’t know. I think when I come into work, I have a group of people I really love, enjoy working with and then doing something I love. I mean, that keep me go every day. I just feel like, “Oh, it’s fun with what’s next? What I’m going to do today with the people I like?” I think that motivates me.

TR: It feels like a family, really. And I love my job. I love coming to work. I mean, again, that’s something like, Michael, you just touching back on what brought you into this industry and created mind and design. It was always part of me, designing and looking at design. So it’s just natural.

SSR: We always end the podcast with the question that is the title of the podcast. And I know we’ve talked a lot about what Jeffrey has taught you, but overall, throughout each of your amazing careers, what do you think has been your greatest lesson or lessons learned along the way? 

MP: Well, I think patience is a big part of it because you need to be patient so you can handle criticism from your clients and even your co-workers because you’re collaborating on things. And if you don’t have that, you would not survive this industry because you would just take it too personal. And a lot of designers coming out of school, that’s something that’s not taught. They have to experience it and learn it. And I think the way we handle it here is we’re not beating down on people that this is not right, it should be this way, it should be our way. It goes back to the whole collaborative process and that we want people to try and mentor them so that they can be designers and that they can grow in the field because it is difficult in this industry to move up the ladder if don’t showing up passion for it.

NLK: Yeah. I think I touched a little bit on, I just say never say no, right? You don’t know what opportunity bring to you. See and go through my career, the journey and now is where I am now. So wonderful with Michael and Tim. We still try to keep doing what we love and that is my greatest lesson. Just keep trying and keep doing it.

TR: I think Nora, you also spoke a lot about how Jeff said it’s a party, welcome to the party.

MP: He would say that at meetings or kickoff meetings for big projects. It’s going to be welcome to the table.

TR: Yeah. And he wanted to have fun. I think for me, I think, integrity maybe would be the word. Own it. Jeff always instilled in me, and I think in all of us, that if something goes wrong on a project, you own it, you stand up, you take responsibility for it, and nine times out of 10, the client will just respect you even more for that and they’ll overlook a mistake that was made or a problem that happened. It’s really about that integrity.

SSR: Well said. Well, Jeff was a great mentor and advisor for me. So he’ll be truly missed. But I can’t wait to see what the three of you continue to do with this amazing firm that he and you all have created. So thank you for taking this last hour. It’s been a pleasure for me to hear your stories and your takes of Jeff, which are very similar to many of mine. So thank you. Thank you. And hope to see you all very soon.

Photos by Brandon Barré, Chris Sanders, Werner Segarra, VRX Studios, Connie Zhou, and courtesy of JBI