Kona Gray

Stacy Shoemaker Rauen: Hi, I’m here with Kona. Kona, thanks so much for joining me today.

Kona Gray: Thank you, Stacy. So good to see you.

SSR: You too. All right. So we always start at the beginning. Where did you grow up?

KG: Okay. I feel very fortunate. I grew up in a small country called Liberia in West Africa and it basically shaped my life and who I am today because I was really fortunate to spend a lot of time outside.

SSR: Were you a creative kid growing up and what were you doing outside too?

KG: Yeah, definitely a creative kid growing up, running around outside, spending time in the countryside, really enjoying the outdoors. I grew up drawing a lot. My dad is an architect, and I sort of grew up in the business of design, so seeing that every day really inspired me.

SSR: That’s awesome. Did you ever go to work with him or was he building nearby? Did you get to see his creations?

KG: Yeah. We probably broke a few child labor laws. I spent a lot of time in the studio and that was my experience growing up. I do remember my dad bringing work home and drawing from home, and I would be doing my drawings while he was doing his drawings and he would critique them. It was really cool. Those were memorable experiences that I just can’t forget.

SSR: Yeah. Was your mom creative as well?

KG: Yeah, my mom was very nurturing. Her career was in healthcare and she really spent a lot of time allowing us to explore and to grow and it was super positive. It was just a great combination of the two in terms of the way they raised us.

SSR: Amazing.

KG: Pretty awesome.

SSR: And so, how did you get into the landscape architecture world or how did you get introduced to that, I guess I should ask?

KG: I stumbled into landscape architecture. As I stated earlier, my dad, as an architect, was really sort of focused on me not becoming an architect. I don’t know what that is. I mean, I know sometimes doctors tell their kids to become doctors and lawyers tell their kids to become lawyers, but architects typically tell their kids not to become architects. And it was interesting that I sort of stumbled into it.

Because I’m creative, I started out in fine art. And so, I painted and sketched and did sculpture and all that kind of stuff and really loved it and was fortunate enough to study at the Savannah College of Art and Design. And during that time period in Savannah, my friends happened to all be architects or pursuing careers in architecture. And so I was like, ‘Oh, I know this stuff. I like this too.’ And so I kind of started hanging out with them and little by little was like, ‘Well, maybe I should transfer into architecture.’ And when I told my dad that he was so upset. He was like, ‘What are you doing, man?’ And I was like, ‘I know I can paint and I love art, but I really want to learn this career.’ And he’s like, ‘All right, go for it.’

And so he said, ‘Well, if you’re going to do it, you really should study at the Boston Architectural College because it requires you to work as well as part of the curriculum.’ And I did it and it was challenging, but I learned so much. And it got to a point in the program where I was like, ‘All right, I’m ready to graduate and it’s taking quite some time,’ and began a transfer process and ended up stumbling into a landscape architecture program because I was ready to get out of school. And it was great.

Looking back, my father talked to me one day about it. He’s like, ‘I knew you were going to do something with the land because when you were a kid, you would go outside and build little cities and little experiences and create places and move things around and shuffle the dirt and sticks and all this kind of stuff and make places. I had a funny feeling you might end up doing this.’ And the rest is history.

SSR: That’s amazing. And what brought you from Liberia to Savannah? How did you make that jump?

KG: Yeah. So going back a little further, my parents immigrated to the U.S. in the ’60s for their education. Both coming from Liberia, met in Boston, met in the Cambridge area, fell in love, got married and both my sister and I were born while they were still in college. So imagine them in undergrad with two kids, two babies. I was like, ‘Were you guys crazy?’ But what was awesome about it is that they loved it. They said, ‘We grew up together. You kids came with us to parties. We took you everywhere with us.’ We were always en tow and it was the ’60s. It was a pretty cool, hip time. And so, from Boston for their graduate studies, they went from the East Coast to the West Coast, to Seattle, University of Washington. Wrapped up their studies and then we all headed back to Africa. And then my sister and I followed in their footsteps. We came back to the states in the ’80s and started doing the same thing.

SSR: So you took this landscape architecture class, what’s next? You graduate. What was your first job out of school? Was it in landscape architecture or did you go into architecture, true architecture first, and then kind of transition over?

KG: What was great about the Boston Architectural College is that I had to work as part of the curriculum, so I was a working student. And when I got to Georgia, I was an older student because, the BAC’s curriculum, it took a while. It’s a heavy load to work all day and then go to design studio in the evening. And that was a constant 12-plus hour day for many, many years and I was getting burned out, but I just was really drawn to it because I always wanted to design more than just the object of a building or space in that term.

I still remember one of my professors looking at my elevation for a building. I drew a tower, but within the whole elevation, I showed the trees and the people and cars and it was all this stuff. And he was like, ‘Ah, you got to get rid of all that.’ And I was like, ‘No, that’s just not how it exists.’ And I didn’t even put two and two together, but that was sort of the light bulb moment of, ‘Okay, I’m not doing what I should be doing.’ In the process of transferring, I discovered this program at Georgia and they were like, ‘Well, we can get you out of here in a year and some change.’ And I was like, ‘Oh, this is a business decision.’ I was like, ‘I got to get this degree and get to work.’

Fortunately, as I was trying to explore the future, I knew that I wanted to design resorts, and I was coming out of the advisor’s office because they had to advise you on your future plans and what sort of capstone or final project you want to do, and I wanted to do a resort. They didn’t have resorts available. And so I was walking out of the office, I saw a poster on the wall for EDSA, for the internship program. I was like, ‘Oh, these guys do resorts.’

They listed all the work that they do in the poster, so I jotted down the number, cold-called EDSA. Fortunately, one of the partners answered and he said, ‘Oh, what can I do for you?’ I was like, ‘Well, I’m a student. I’m looking for a capstone project. Would you have one that I could utilize?’ And they’re like, ‘Sure, let us think about it. But in the meantime, hand write us a letter.’ Hand write, okay?’ ‘We want to see your lettering. We want to see that you’re actually a serious designer. Hand write us a letter and we’ll get back to you.’ And I was like, all right.

The day before I had to make the decision between doing a resort or working on a small streetscape in South Georgia, they called me. I was like, ‘Okay, great.’ So I went down, got base plan information, did the project, sent it back to EDSA, ‘Thank you. Here it is,’ probably going to stay in the Atlanta area, and shortly after that, I got a cold call back from them. ‘Hey, would you be interested and come and work for us?’ I was like, ‘I don’t know. Let me think about it.’And I asked a professor and he said, ‘Oh, EDSA? You mean Edward D. Stone Jr. and Associates?’ I was like, ‘Yes.’ He’s like, ‘Ed Stone. He’s pretty big time. You might want to consider this.’ And I was like, ‘Okay. What advice do you have for me?’ He’s like, ‘Well, it’s in Florida. It’s kind of expensive there. Just make sure you ask for a good salary.’ Best advice I ever received. And here I am almost 25 years later.

SSR: That is amazing. Okay. What did your letter look like?

KG: My partner, Rick Centolella, tells me he still has the letter, but I haven’t seen it in quite some time. Growing up in the realm of architecture, I was taught early how to draft and how to draw by hand. And so the letter, the architectural lettering, is all very crisp and straight and clean. That’s just the way we are trained. I remember, when I used to write checks, that I practiced my lettering when I wrote my checks for my rent or whatever. It’s always clean and clear and easy to read.

SSR: Love it.

KG: Yeah. It’s pretty awesome.

SSR: So almost 25 years at EDSA, which is amazing, what have been some of your favorite projects or moments that you got to design over the years?

KG: Again, I’m super grateful that Ed created the company because our ability to design and work around the globe has allowed us to get engaged in all sorts of amazing projects. One of my most memorable experiences was traveling to the Maldives with a client to Benchmark Hotels, which was really awesome. We were doing a plan there and the exploration of their culture and seeing how water was so integral into everything was just fantastic. I was able to go to the Only & Only Reethi Rah in the Maldives and that project is just outstanding. And that was a great inspiration.

The work we’ve done in Egypt has been really memorable for me as well. It’s just fantastic to look back at the portfolio and try to remember all the things we worked on. But between that and the W Vieques in Puerto Rico, those are probably two of my favorite projects. But I do believe that inspiration garnered from travel and drawing and sketching and seeing places, it’s really what fuels our design passion, no doubt.

SSR: And what’s your process? How do you start? Is there a place that you begin with each project and what is that? Take us through that a little bit.

KG: Our process and methodology is pretty open. We believe in starting every project with a good understanding of the place. And so, if we’re unable to go there, we do a lot of that desktop analysis and understanding of the place. That is one aspect of it.

The other aspect is the people and getting to know the people and understanding what they need and what the culture is and that whole history. It really infuses a lot of information upfront really early. In our opinion, it’s pretty challenging to work on a job without having that background information. That’s the beginning of everything.

And so, once we have listened and have pulled in as much information as we can before we even begin to draw, we get to a point where we’re like, ‘Now I’m starting to understand this a little bit.’ And that’s when we begin to ideate or create, start to sketch, and sketching along with clients or in front of clients is probably the most amazing things that we do. That helps you kind of hone in onto the idea, the big story.

I do recall, earlier in my career, many of the projects didn’t have a story. It was the special projects that were able to be put in that position. But now more than ever, most of our projects are really drawn to a theme or an idea or a story about the place. We’re storytellers, that’s really what we do when we’re designing and creating cool places for people to be.

SSR: I was going to ask, how has the practice changed in the last 25 years? Do you think landscape architecture for resorts, for urban life, for everything has even become more important over the last two decades and moving forward, especially after the last 18 months?

KG: Yeah, no doubt. COVID definitely amplified it. And prior to that, most landscape architects were screaming, ‘Hey, the landscape is important. Don’t cut that out of the budget. Trust us, you really want this.’ But you know what? I think we probably should have stepped back and explored it from a different avenue, because what I think a lot of people don’t understand about landscape architecture is its importance to the quality of life for humanity and giving people something that they can’t tangibly receive from a structure, from a building. It’s something super emotional and spiritual that I think a lot of people miss. And landscape architects can do a better job of explaining that.

I think that’s really what it comes down to, is that having a fantastic landscape actually makes you a better person. It’s really simple and we overlook it. We walk through it all day. We turn around and look at this majestic landscape in Oregon or somewhere in the Planes or here on the East Coast, in Florida, the ocean. These are things that are integral to human survival. Having these types of places makes a big difference. And so, over the last decade or so, landscape architecture has certainly been elevated.

Hospitality has been ahead of the game for quite some time, understanding that people do not want to stay in their room. The room is a place, it’s a little vessel, but they really want to be in the environment. They want to be by the pool. It’s 50 percent of our business, and I think what we’ve learned from hospitality is that you can translate that language of design to pretty much any type of asset and it makes a really, really big difference. And so now we’re doing senior living projects and they want it to feel like a resort or we’re doing campus projects and they want it to feel like a resort. It’s really interesting to see how the lifestyle of hospitality has been twisted into everything. I think it’s lovely. It’s fantastic.

SSR: It’s great. I wish it happened sooner, but I’m happy that it’s happening now. Even in urban projects, I think. In New York, for instance, when COVID happened, and restaurants had to come outside and use sidewalks and streets and the city started shutting down streets. Just seeing that, even that little change, that little tweak of something, how different it makes you feel. Right?

KG: Yeah. And I know we all remember those days when we had to go home and we got home, but every once in a while, you’re like, ‘All right, I got to get out of my house to take a walk. I’m going to go bananas.’ And wow, I still remember a few months after the pandemic began, walking outside, seeing my neighbors. People were waving. People were a lot nicer. Even though we were going through this really crazy time and sad and scary and just devastating, I think it did bring back a little bit of humanity. I remember watching the news of the people in New York singing and really caring for their community again. I think we kind of lost it for a while there, so the pandemic was a bit of a reset.

And our clients that, out of necessity, realized that they needed to embrace these out outdoor spaces, learned something. We were transforming parking lots into plazas and terraces, and taking those parallel parking spaces and turning them into dining areas. That is something that we’ve been pushing for decades as landscape architects, but people are like, ‘Oh, no. No, you can’t do that.’ I’m like, ‘Why?’ ‘Because that’s what we do.’ I was like, ‘That’s not a reason.’ And it’s fantastic to see a lot of those spaces are going to stick around. I love that. And we’re doing a lot more rooftop terraces and taking advantage of that fifth façade of a building. These are things that people didn’t even consider. Now they really want it. And it’s pretty cool.

SSR: Is there one part of the process that you love the most?

KG: I would certainly say it’s the beginning and the end. Yeah. The middle part’s cool. I’m the type of designer that, I love seeing the entire process, but the beginning, we’re really honing in on the concept and everybody’s at the table and it’s creative and we’re throwing a bunch of ideas around and trying different things. It’s so fantastic. And then, as you get near the end, which is also cool, it’s sort of frantic. You have a deadline. It’s opening day in a few days. And that’s an awesome time too because everyone rolls up their sleeves, we’re on the ground, we’re saying, ‘Okay, that plant needs to go there,’ or, ‘That furniture placement isn’t right. Let’s try this.’ It’s just fantastic to see people come together and make it happen.

SSR: Yeah, that team effort. And I know you talked about your work in Puerto Rico and Egypt and the Maldives. Is there one project though that was your most challenging, that you came up with an interesting solution or something that you are pretty proud of that you can delve a little bit into the details about?

KG: Yeah. There’s so many. I would say that one of the most challenging projects was at W Vieques. Our client came to us through a recommendation for this project. And I still remember our good friend, Ken DeStefano calling us up and saying, ‘Hey, you guys need to work on this.’ We worked on the Ritz with Ken in Puerto Rico. He’s like, ‘This client really needs you. She’s new to resorts.’ She was a banker, but she really wanted to do resorts. She did a retreat and she did an urban hotel at the same time. I was like, ‘Wow, that’s pretty ambitious. Let’s get it on. See what happens.’

But as she was new to hospitality, we were all learning together. And what was crazy was that she went through quite a few consultants. The team didn’t fully gel at the beginning. It was led by an interior architecture team and client … It just didn’t gel. And fortunately, we got to a point where they finally found a group that aligned with the client and that was Rockwell Group. And we were so happy. We were like, ‘Okay, this has been very challenging, but I think we’re going to be able to take this forward because we are seeing eye to eye.’ And then the client brought in Patricia Urquiola as a design director and that really solidified the whole process.

What we did that made it unique and actually kind of brought it together was that we embraced the Puerto Rican culture. Vieques is very different than the main island. It’s surfer/Bohemian/country/everything, so this W retreat ended up being something that we knew when we were able to infuse that local culture, that we were going to have something. We had purpose at that point in the design. And that was a major collaboration in many parts, I would say, led by our landscape architecture team because there were so many distractions and finally we were able to bring everyone together and say, ‘What really matters here?’ And that was inspiration for not only our client, but the entire team to design something that really fit the place.

I think that the unfortunate part of the story is that we live in a world that where there is tragic occurrences and the property didn’t survive Irma or hurricane in 2017 and it’s going through a transition now. Hopefully, it will have another life, but at that moment in time, it was just unbelievable. It was very magical. Still one of my favorite projects, though.

SSR: So sad. How do you stay up to date on the latest in all things landscape? Are you out there researching new species and trees and life all the time?

KG: All the time, yeah. Many of us are members of the American Society of Landscape Architects. There’s also another group called the Landscape Architecture Foundation, which does a lot of research. It’s like a little think tank for our community of designers and so, we are constantly pushing the envelope, trying different things, experimenting.

The Landscape Architecture Foundation has a fellowship and it’s pretty cool because as a professional, you can take a moment in time and go and study something super important to you. One of our really great colleagues developed this carbon calculator. That was her big idea. And so she was seeded some money to take it a little further. There’s so many groups that have really learned a lot because of that organization.

For us, being able to continually test things and experiment and try different things is what allows us to remain relevant. And I think the other thing that we do as designers is, we’re so collaborative that we want to learn from others. We’re looking, not only at the built environment, we’re looking at fashion, we’re looking at cars, music, all that kind of stuff. As designers, that’s what really makes you sing. If you’re so focused on one, you may miss something. That’s what inspires me. It’s just finding all those other inspirations that are outside of the discipline.

SSR: Are there any new technologies or ideas that you are excited about?

KG: Yeah. As a firm, we’ve always embraced hand drawing because it’s artistic, it gives you a chance to sketch really quick and come up with the ideas, but technology has really elevated it. We got to a point where we knew that we did not want to lose that foundation of design, that discipline of design, and we embraced tablets. Most of our designers have these pretty good size Wacom tablets and we are able to draw by hand, but we draw right into the computer, so it’s just this digital transformation.

There’s so much you learn from drawing by hand. I don’t know what it is about the hand-eye coordination of drawing. It certainly is therapeutic, but it also allows you to remember more and you really know that design when you draw it. Different than holding a mouse. Totally different. And so having a stylus and a pen and then being able to draw on the computer allows you to make that all come together. And collaboration has been elevated because of new apps and programs that allow you to draw by hand together while you’re away from each other and come back together to draw. I think that’s pretty cool. We’re seeing apps like Miro and Bluescape. There’s so many different ways where we can collaborate now using digital tools. I just can’t believe that we’ve come this far. I would’ve never thought. But we haven’t lost our understanding of the foundation of design through the ability to draw.

SSR: I remember I did a podcast with Roger Thomas, and I said, ‘What would you tell your younger self or what do you tell people as you’re mentoring them?’ He’s like, ‘Learn how to draw.’ Because he’s like, ‘That’s the art.’  It’s a lost art, right? And to bring that back and really have those layers and everything you were just saying is so important to a project.

KG: Yeah. And it’s not about creating these wonderful masterpieces. It’s about being able to think while you’re drawing … We call it design thinking. It’s a doodle, it’s a little sketch. Sometimes you need to put it on paper for someone to understand what you’re thinking. And I just think as a designer, as a landscape architect or architect, or even an engineer, you should be able to draw. You really should. It’s the foundation of our creative genre. It just is.

SSR: I wish I could draw. I can’t draw at all.

KG: Yes, you can. You and I are going to draw together.

SSR: Okay.

KG: I promise you, you can draw.

SSR: All right. I’ll take you up on that. We’ll try that.

KG: Yup. Okay.

SSR: Tell us about EDSA. How many projects are you working on? What’s the firm culture? I know you dove into a little bit about it, but…

KG: Yeah, I love EDSA. EDSA was established in 1960 by our founder, Ed Stone, as just a small shop focused on creating fantastic projects for our clients. Very client-centric. And there wasn’t anything we couldn’t do. We always took care of our clients, and we still do. It was almost one of those things that allowed us to become almost essential workers, as I call it because we became friends with our clients, we became partners. We were part of that development process. And so early on in the culture, we understood everything you needed to understand about development.

But I think the other thing that Ed did was he infused this humility so that we weren’t those star architects, starchitects. We were really collaborators and people that worked together. And one thing he always reminded us was to make sure you follow the golden rule, treat others the way you want to be treated. Over time, we created this strong team based on a studio format where we had several different studios, small groups, all working together and collaborating. And it hasn’t changed today.

If you come to any of our offices, you will see collaboration in life. There’s trace paper everywhere. There are people sketching and drawing and talking. ‘What do you think about this? Check out that image.’ It’s fantastic because it’s so powerful to see that process of design. It’s not, ‘Oh, this is mine. Stay away. I don’t need your input.’ It’s this. It’s arms wide open, let’s work together. Let’s figure it out. No stupid ideas. And that culture has stuck.

We’re about 160 people right now. We’ve been around since 1960, as I was stating. And we’re global. Because of Ed’s dad, Edward Durell Stone Sr., we ended up doing a lot of work around the globe because of his assignments. So whether they’re embassies or campuses, we were able to work together in those early years. And it had a big influence on our understanding of the planet and all the different ways and places where we could go and work. Now we’ve evolved. We restructured about a year ago just before COVID. Actually almost 18 months. It’s so crazy. I’ve lost track of time because of COVID.

But we transformed our studios into teams, so we have larger studios that are our studio teams now led by multiple principals, which is really great because there’s a lot of collaboration. We collaborated, and now it’s like collaboration on steroids now because everybody is cross-pollinating across teams, across different regions. I’ve been asked along with a couple other partners to really focus on growing the business and business development. That’s been fantastic. It’s so great to see the firm evolve and I believe that’s important for all companies. You can’t stay the same. Life is constantly changing and you have to evolve and you should do it proactively. You shouldn’t wait for a disaster to change. And it was interesting because we were making this change before COVID hit and our advisor, Dave Gilmore with design intelligence was like, ‘Yeah. Just go for it, guys. Don’t wait. Just go for it.’ And we’re like, ‘All right.’

SSR: All right, here we go.

KG: Here we go. Yeah.

SSR: Awesome. And you’re on the Hospitality Diversity Action Council, thank you, with me. Well, not with me. With 14 others and you’ve been critical of the lack of diversity in the landscape architecture profession and hospitality in general. And I guess less than 10 percent of graduating landscape architects are BIPOC. How, as a person of color, how can the field attract more amazing people like yourself and how do you bring that to EDSA?

KG: It all about awareness. When you start to think about the different career choices you can make, in many cases, you learn about those choices through someone else. Sometimes you have this internal thing that tells you that you want to be an artist or a doctor or a ballerina or whatever it is. But when you’re younger, it’s all about those influences, what your parents do or what your uncle does or what your aunt is doing and those things draw you. I am convinced that it’s about awareness and we have to explain and share with people the love of design through landscape architecture. It is something that I believe that once you find out like myself, you’re hooked. You just don’t realize that’s something you can do.

In regards to the BIPOC population, the landscape has, unfortunately, had a negative connotation. Whether it was related to slavery or things of working the land, people, I’ve learned over my years of interest in this subject, have pushed back on “landscape” as a word. And that’s a problem because the land is very precious. It’s something that we have to take care of. And as landscape architects, that’s our charge, of promoting the land and providing people the tools to understand the value of the land.

Before we were all here, the land was here. The rivers were here, the mountains were here, the trees were here. And then we showed up and said, ‘Oh, we can manage this. We can do this.’ And we’ve made a terrible mess and we have to fix it. Our survival is dependent on us fixing this mess. And so, we need more landscape architects and we need more designers that get it, that understand the value of the land. But as ambassadors, to make sure we have more of just the general public that get it, that care for national parks, that care for their downtown, that care for these environments. And as that happens, we will grow.

I strongly believe that landscape architecture is a democratic profession. Everyone is meant to have good landscape architecture, no matter the cost. But for so many decades, I would say the 1 percent got it. They enjoyed their fancy gardens and beautiful mansions and all that kind of stuff. They got it, but there’s way more places that need attention from a landscape architecture perspective. And I know when we will, it’s going to be a major paradigm shift. People are going to just say, ‘Wow, I’m coming in. I want to be a landscape architect. I want to design these spaces between the buildings. I want to make sure that people have a healthy environment, that they’re able to get fresh food near their home. They’re able to go to a park and get the fresh air that they need.’ All these things will come together when we have more people on board understanding the importance of the environment.

I think what it’s going to take, going back to the beginning, is awareness. Just making people aware this profession exists. I look at the NCAA and how they recruit. I mean, they go to you. That coach comes and sits you down with you and your parents and tells you how wonderful their school is. We need more designers, more landscape architects, and architects to go to these schools and sit down with students and sit down with their parents and say, ‘Hey, this is something that is really important and we really believe that you would benefit from it.’ And it’d go a long way.

SSR: Yeah, for sure. And are you trying to bring more diversity into your own firm by going out there finding new people, recruiting different talent?

KG: Yes, absolutely. I would say about a decade or so ago, we adopted a high school, Northeast High School here in the Fort Lauderdale area. Primarily a very diverse high school. We did a design class with them. It only takes one. It was fortunate that one of these students decided that they really love landscape architecture and wanted to pursue it and got a degree, graduated, he’s working on his professional license right now. I mean, that’s what it takes. It’s just one at a time. And I can tell you, I can recall going to the American Society of Landscape Architecture conferences early in my career and being one of the only black people there. Seriously, I could look around and like, ‘Where is everybody?’

And then over the years, little by little, that’s improved. Same thing in the universities. I was one of the only African Americans at Georgia. In my graduating class, I was the one. And Georgia’s a big program. And continuing to stay with Georgia and spend time there and go back and speak and talk to students, I’ve been so inspired to see that that’s changing as well. There are more students there. So it takes time. Unfortunately, we have a long way to go, but the only way to do it is to be super proactive and intentional about it, to actually go out and grab somebody and say, ‘Hey, I think you would benefit from this.’ That’s what it takes. And we’re doing that at EDSA too.

SSR: It takes one. If everyone went and just took one individual, what that chain reaction could have.

KG: It’s definitely a chain action. It’s actually pretty cool. Because you’re leading by example. If you’re doing something positive, other people will come along. But what was always important for me was seeing someone that looks like me in the profession. And that was challenging. Fortunately, I had my father as a role model from the get-go. But as I was coming up as a designer and learning, I didn’t see many African American or people of color. I just didn’t see them. But that never held me back because I was passionate about it and my parents always instilled into us the idea that it’s about the human race, not one race. It’s about everyone. We’re here together and we all can learn something from each other.

So I’ve always been open to diverse opinions and different opinions and watching that and seeing other people step up and seeing, even if it’s just a few role models, grabbing onto them has made a big difference in my career. I always tell younger designers, find those people that inspire you, ask them to be your mentor, ask them questions. Most of the successful people have become successful because they’ve asked, because they’ve taken a moment to say, ‘Well, how did you do it? What does success mean to you?’

And it’s not just about achievements or attaining this degree or this medal or award or whatever it is. It’s about being a good person, being successful in life, having a great family, having wonderful friends. And maybe that’s just my opinion because everyone has their own and I respect that, but for me, being successful is being a good person and giving back and continuing to try and experiment and being happy, being kind. All those things are simple things, but it really has a lot to do with being successful.

SSR: Love it. And do you tinker at home? Do you have a big garden?

KG: Oh, yeah.

SSR: You out there all the time?

KG: Yeah. No, my wife and I are super fortunate. We stalked this property in Fort Lauderdale for several years until it was available. And it was 2012, December, and the market was soft enough that we could afford it and we bought it and it’s a half an acre property. Basically, it’s an oak hammock. And so we live in nature. What was really interesting and intriguing about the whole process was the previous owner interviewed us and asked, ‘What’s your profession? What do you do?’ And I was like, ‘Well, I’m a landscape architect.’ And her eyes just lit up. She’s like, ‘Oh, landscape architect.’ And she knew her landscape architecture. She’s like, ‘So you like trees?’ And I was like, ‘Oh, I love trees.’ And she’s like, ‘And you’re not going to cut down any trees, are you?’ I was like, ‘Oh, absolutely not.’

SSR: Probably going to add some.

KG: I was going to add a lot of trees. And so, we have a tropical oasis that is a historic Florida oak hammock with great palm trees and pine trees as well. It is the natural ecology that was here and we have fruit trees and we garden and so we have tomatoes and peppers and all that kind of stuff and lots of tropical flowers. We bring cut flowers from our garden into the home. It’s a great place to be. When we were told to go home because of the pandemic, I was like, ‘No problem.’

SSR: You’re like, ‘Great. I’m happy here.’

KG: It’s our little retreat. We have a great pool. It’s a little resort. And so, when you’re in town, I welcome you to come to the Gray compound.

SSR: I will totally come to the Gray compound. It sounds amazing. Much nicer than Brooklyn.

KG: Anytime. And we have a little guest house too, so you really feel like you’re at a resort when you come here.

SSR: So we always end the podcast with the title of the podcast and that’s What I’ve Learned. What has been your greatest lesson or lessons learned along the way?

KG: Wow. I think along the way, a lesson that’s been reinforced is kindness and being good to people. And specifically after this year, a couple of years, it seems. It’s so crazy. Realizing that there are some people in your life that really, really matter. That really, really matter. Your family. We sort of take it for granted. So being kind to your family, but also being kind to your friends to people you just meet

Coming back from my trip yesterday on my flight to Fort Lauderdale, I spent the whole flight having a conversation with this couple that had just been to Mexico and were telling me about this wonderful vacation and their sort of spiritual experience. And it’s like, ‘Oh, okay.’ I could have easily said, ‘Hey, not interested, threw on my headphones and just jammed out.’ We all do it. But I was like, ‘I want to learn something.’ And so we chatted and it was fantastic.

I really want to encourage everyone to be nice. To be kind to people. It’s easy. And it comes back to you tenfold. You don’t think about it. And it’s funny because people are mean all the time. And what does that do? It does nothing. You’re just throwing all this negative energy into the world. And so turn that around, be nice to people and your life will be even better.

SSR: Amazing. Well, such a great place to end such an amazing conversation. Thank you so much, Kona, for joining me today. It’s so great to catch up with you.

KG: Oh, awesome. I really appreciate it. I’m super grateful we had this opportunity to chat.

SSR: And hopefully, I’ll see you in real life soon, when I come to the Gray compound, which will be sooner than you think.

KG: Yeah. Invitation’s out there.

SSR: Oh, yay.

KG: It’s going to get cold soon and we’re here in sunny Florida. So anytime.

SSR: All right. Well, awesome. All right. Well, hope to see you soon. Thanks so much.

KG: Okay. See you, Stacy. Thanks.