André Fu, AFSO

Stacy Shoemaker Rauen: Hi, I’m here with André Fu. How are you? Thank you so much for joining us today.

André Fu: Very excited to be here.

SSR: We’re in the beautiful Baccarat Hotel. You do stay in nice hotels when you travel to New York. So, let’s start at the beginning. Where did you grow up?

AF: I was born in Hong Kong, but I left for England when I was 14, and I was there for 14 years before I moved back to Asia.

SSR: How did that England influence and Hong Kong influence affect your design aesthetic. How did your upbringing lead you into design?

AF: Well, I guess as a child, I’ve always loved drawing and growing up in a fairly kind of traditional Chinese family, my parents have always wanted me to be a professional. So I pursued the professional training in architecture. But, ultimately, I have taken on a route that’s more honed into hospitality design, per se. Growing up in Asia and also a substantial amount of time in England has actually cultivated my exposure, I guess, in different cultures, and  I’ve been very cautious not to overanalyze it because of the world that we’re living in right now.

I was in Hong Kong yesterday, I’m in New York right now. I’ll be in LA in two days, and then in five days time I will be back in Hong Kong. So I guess we’re working in that kind of that dynamic, per se. So whenever I travel to a city I guess what my upbringing has cultivated in me is to have that open mindedness and just go into a place, immerse myself in that culture, and just kind of behave the way I naturally would. And  in certain cultures, especially when you’re working in cities like Japan, you become a slightly different person because of the way they talk and because of the way they do things. And when in New York then you’ve become a slightly different person as well. You become much more lively. You kind of respond naturally to the dynamics of the city.

SSR: And were your parents artistic or in the arts at all?

AF: My father’s a lawyer. My mother is in education. So not quite on the artistic spectrum.

SSR: Were there any early travels or memories of hospitality or staying in hotels that you remember or that might have piqued an early interest?

AF: Well, my bigger family was in the hotel business. So when I was a baby, literally, I was going up and down hotels all the time.

SSR: Any fun memories of it?

AF: I remember I was playing in the lifts and one of the guests in the lifts got a bit upset, and he said that he needs to talk to my parents. So he walked me back to my parents and had a word to them about how naughty I was to muck around in the lift.

SSR: What were your parents’ responses?

AF: Well they were a bit surprised, but I guess it’s just the way it is.

SSR: Just you being a kid.

AF: Yes.

SSR: So you went to school for architecture, correct?

AF: Yes.

SSR: Did you cement your love of architecture at school or was there another kind of inkling to do something different or in school was architecture [really your love]?

AF: Well, I was in England, I was at Cambridge University and I did architecture, and it was a long course. It was three years plus year out and then two years in master’s program. So it was a quite a substantial amount of time. And I guess what I really appreciate, especially kind of looking back is the fact that Cambridge had quite a strong focus on the theory of architecture or architecture history. So I got to look at or kind of exposed myself to a lot of the historical conception of architecture, from baroque architecture all the way to kind of postmodernism and all that. And especially now we’re living in a social media age and everything is about moving forward and innovating and what’s next, and all that. So having a degree of that kind of appreciation I think has rooted my vocabulary quite substantially.

SSR: When you say you’re out you have to go study somewhere else or do you go work at an architecture firm?

AF: I had to go to work in an architecture firm.

SSR: So who did you work with?

AF: I worked for John Pawson.

SSR: That’s amazing. What was it like working for him?

AF: It was the time when minimalism was the kind of hot topic. It was in the millennium, the late ’90s. And it was an amazing exposure for me because John really worked with the best people from kind of all the kind of art critic, lighting consultants, photographers, you know, everything that surrounds him kind of at the top people. And I think that has given me a huge exposure or kind of awareness that great projects are not just about a single entity, it’s a kind of strong collaborative method. And how everything kind of have to talk to each other to create that holistic experience.

SSR: Love that. So after this amazing experience at Cambridge with John Paulson, what was your first job out of school?

AF: Interestingly, I actually started my studio pretty much when I was in masters. So I was offered to do some freelance work for some uncles that owns restaurants in London and renovate small apartments of friends in London as well so that’s how I started. I didn’t have a kind of big plan to have my own studio and all that, and I haven’t really cultivated clients in any other environments before I really started. So it was just like an ad hoc situation and it one thing led to another.

SSR: Organically happened.

AF: Organically happened.

SSR: What would you say was your first big project?

AF: My first big project is probably the Upper House in Hong Kong. So it was a bit of a miracle really. At the time I had a studio of three people. It was three years after I moved back to Hong Kong with no real hospitality experiences. So it was a miracle. The chairman of the developer, Swire Properties, wanted to tap into the hotel industry. And the chairman at the time saw an article in the Sunday newspaper and that article had a feature of an apartment that I did, and I was then asked for an interview. I chatted to them. I later did a clubhouse for the developer and at the time when the clubhouse finished, he saw it and liked what I created. And shortly after that I was appointed to create the hotel.

SSR: What was it like getting that job? What were your emotions?

AF: At the time I thought that I was equipped to do it. Because I’ve always loved hospitality, I was excited. I was keen to explore what I could potentially create. I never would I have thought that the hotel had such a great impact on the market and is still very much appreciated 10 years after its opening.

SSR: For those that haven’t seen it or haven’t read about it in a million magazines that it’s been in because it is such a beautiful property. Tell our listeners what do you think resonated so much about the design, about your aesthetic?

AF: I think the hotel kind of communicated on the kind of notion of what is hospitality going forward? In many sense, it’s the antithesis of what people would have expected of a luxury Asian hotel. A typical Asian hotel would have had five restaurants, a huge ballroom, 300 rooms, a huge lobby, and all that.

The Upper House has a tidy lobby. In fact, it doesn’t really have a lobby. You kind of go in and you take it on this upward journey with an escalator that kind of takes you up to level six. We call it kind of like a transient floor where huge garden is positioned and then you go straight up to the rooms. The rooms are big. They start at 730 square foot each. We call them Studios 730. Going up to five categories of rooms up to the penthouse and it has one single restaurant right at the top of the hotel, Café Gray Deluxe, that offers panoramic view of the city’s harbor. And on the other side of the building is the Sky Lounge, which is kind of like a living room, double height with a fireplace.

And the overall aesthetic is something that is very pure. The whole design of the hotel is conceived around the word, two words actually, calm and comfort. So some people perceived it as being very minimal. For me, it’s just a very pure, very simple, very detailed-driven environment that honed into the essence of comfort and there’s nothing overtly Asian or overtly Western about it. And I think it’s that kind of language that is in between the two that made it very, very unique.

SSR: Would that be how you to kind of describe your style, your aesthetic?

AF: I think Upper House is a very unique proposition because its the antithesis to the Asian hotel landscape at the time and also to the dynamics of Hong Kong, to have something very, very quiet, very serene against the urbanity of Hong Kong. It’s something that we tried to captivate for that property. I think that type of design language, what I would describe as being relaxed luxury is something that is very much my kind of belief in my DNA.

But in terms of career progression, I guess especially now looking back, it’s been 10 years and actually today we’re going to preview a new book that I’m doing with an English publisher, Thames & Hudson, and the book is actually called Crossing Cultures with Design. Looking back, it’s an interesting journey that I’ve taken in some ways because I haven’t, at least from my own belief, I haven’t replicated the success of Upper House in terms of a design formula or design language. I’ve taken on very different brands; brands that are very different from the Upper House. Brands like the Waldorf Astoria, brands like St Regis: two iconic old brands that have a very different aesthetic and very different personality. And collaborations with fashion houses like COS, like Louis Vuitton, even mmodel apartments in New York in 53 West 53 with Jean Nouvel architecture right beside us right now. So I guess that’s been an interesting path looking back.

SSR: And do you think that, how do you say, that relaxed luxury is, there’s something about your spaces when you go in that you get is almost a sense of calm, but it just kind of envelops you with this hug of beauty. Does that make sense? And I think it’s a very fine line that you draw or that you do because you could go one way or the other, right? You could go very over the top or very minimalist and somehow you walk that perfect line between the two.

AF: I think that’s the fun part of what I have kind of built for myself in a way. As in clients come to me and we have a quite an open dialogue and I guess especially now because of the spectrum of things that we have done, people believe that whatever I come back with them would relate well to the vision or their vision, and we’ll find a way to have that sense of elegance, comfort, and all that, but at the same time how something that is different. And I think that’s the interesting part of what I think my career has taken me.

SSR: Was there something that you learned doing Upper House that has kind of stuck with you for the rest of your career?

AF: I think the essence of the experience is something that is very key for me. And I think Upper House kind of captivates that very well. It’s not about a singular moment, it’s about a series of moments within a property and it kind of builds up as layers almost. So one layer after the other and eventually they conjure up as a holistic feeling. And that kind of feeling, that type of memory creates what everyone is longing for because when they leave a property, if they think back and they think of all the feelings that they have, I think that will bring them back to the property. And that’s ultimately what we’re trying to do.

SSR: Do you use that similar process for retail or for residential as well?

AF: I guess subconsciously, yes. I think it’s how discover things. And I think that’s that feeling of discovery, of course, in a hotel because there are multiple layers to it and the multiple facilities. So you can tell a bigger story and it’s easier to build a feeling inside the customer. But if it’s something that is very impactful, very compact, I think the challenge is bigger, but equally there are ways to do it. And I guess I’ve also taken on a separate route with my living, André Fu Living lifestyle brand and it’s the reverse. It’s building a feeling through objects instead of using spatial experience to communicate that. So that’s also another way of challenging myself.

SSR: What other products are a natural progression for you?

AF:  I haven’t been doing this for a very long time. I’m 44 and I guess for a lot of designers, I’m still kind of like an early stage. So I feel that I shouldn’t be too comfortable with myself. I’ve had moments last year, I was looking at a hotel layouts, it’s like another 400 square foot template and I still have to fit in the bed, the mini bar, the two hooks for the shower, and everything. And I feel that maybe it’s about time, I am still very happy doing it. I still love the world of hospitality, but perhaps I could challenge myself with products and try to see if I can express myself in something that is not so much location-driven and something that can travel instead of something that you have to travel to.

SSR: And has that met your expectations of what it would be like to design products?

AF: The brand is still just eight months out, so it’s still early stage. We had quite a good response in Asia. We’re going into other venues of retail and we’re going into some online platforms very soon. So quite excited about it.

SSR: And looking back over the last 10 years, I know Upper House was kind of the gamechanger that set you on your path. What have been some other projects that have helped define your career or challenged you in a different way that have been exciting?

AF: I think Villa La Coste was a very interesting one, in Provence. It’s a very unique vineyard in Aix-en-Provence, actually around 30 minutes from Aix. A winery that really celebrates art, architecture, and the winery with some amazing names that’s in the property. Architects like Ando, Frank Gehry, Jean Nouvel, you name it. And a lot of artists that have created institute, specially commissioned artwork like Jean-Michel or great pieces by Louis Bourgeois, CODA, etc., etc. And at the top of the vineyard is as a hotel just over 20 rooms. And I created a huge spa for it with 11 treatment rooms and also some of the key public areas like the salon, the library, and all that. I think in some ways it kind of captivates my journey in design quite well, in the sense that I think still today there’s a lot of people that like to label someone that comes from Asia as an Asian designer.

And I would question myself, why would a client fly someone like myself all the way to Aix en Provence to create something that is Asian. And obviously that’s not the case. I think what he has challenged me with is to have this kind of open mind. I’ve never been to Aix previously, and I went there to just kind of immerse myself in the daylight, in the texture of the area and just came up with a response in terms of how I can captivate something that I caught a modern provencal type of experience and in a space, in a sonography that I’ve created. And I think that was a really unique situation.

I think a new project that is coming up in summer this year in Kyoto, a hotel called the Mitsui is also something that I find really intriguing because I’ve always loved Kyoto. I mean everybody loves Kyoto because of the history, the heritage of the place. It’s kind of like a lost in translation, lost in time kind of situation. But when you go there, and I was doing it for a Japanese client, it’s a brand new Japanese brand as well and equally I would question myself, why would a Japanese client creating a destination in Kyoto in Japan, why would they commission someone outside of Japan to do something?

But then I thought maybe I shouldn’t ask myself that question too much because I think the whole idea is how I could express their story in a slightly different manner. And the process of realizing the project has also taught me a lot about the city, about the craftsmanship. I’ve got to work with amazing fabric designers, locally, lacquerware designers. There’s a company that made traditional bronze teapots. We got some custom made for the project. So I think what’s been interesting in my career so far is not only allowing myself to express design in different cities and work with amazing people like you guys to tell that story and to share that story, but also to collaborate with a really interesting people that I would never have had the chance to meet otherwise.

SSR: And bring that to artists and into the practice.

AF: Yes, exactly.

SSR: So you started off with three people years ago. What’s your company like now? How many people?

AF: It’s a studio of 20 so people, some of them are surprised they would have expected me to have a studio of a hundred.

SSR: Do you like that size?

AF: I think. So I still need to be very, very kind of in touch with everything that’s happening.

SSR: That was going to be my next question. How involved are you still?

AF: I’m still very involved, I would say. I don’t know. I think for my it’s the feeling of respect to my clients. I feel that if they asked me to something, I feel that I need to give myself to it and kind of nurture that relationship, not just in terms of delivering a great product, hopefully a great product, but in the process or realizing it.

SSR: No, for sure. I think people, clients hire firms for their principal and to still be very involved, I think will help make you continue to be very successful. You’ve done retail, you’ve done residential, you’ve done hospitality. Is there still a project that’s on your bucket list.

AF: Actually, I really wanted to do a park. Well, we’ve done a bit of landscaping for hotels, but to really do a park, I find it really intriguing. Because if we think of hospitality, we think of design, especially interiors. In terms of materials, it’s the fabric, it’s the stone, it’s the glass, it’s the wood, but actually, plants are very unique because a lot of the time they are climate specific. So certain climates represent a certain type of plants because of the sensibility. Especially because of that they actually present a type of feeling. I mean succulent plants have that tropical exotic feeling whereas topiaries that are very beautifully crypt, you would naturally think of Europe and places like that. So I find it really intriguing. I love to explore plants and learn a lot more about them.

SSR: And you said that the Upper House was a statement of where hospitality was headed. What do you think about the industry today and where do you see it going in the next say five or so years?

AF: I think it’s a really interesting time at the moment because social media has definitely educated people a lot more about the notion of travel. And because of that people are seeking out experiences. They are trying to differentiate themselves because to travel to places that represent their personality is kind of like the best expression of oneself and with traditional brands.

And that’s what’s been interesting for me in the past few years is working with a few very, very established classic brands. And if you put them into a city like New York with that history in mind, it’s all very well. But if you take them to certain Asian cities that are very, very new, that didn’t have such a long history, how do you make it relevant to that city? And rather than something that’s kind of purely transplanted from the west. I guess that would, for me, it’s the biggest question and the biggest challenge in terms of hospitality going forward and equally for certain Asian brands with a very serene type of aesthetic and to transplant them into cities like New York, which is happening right now, and how to make it relevant to the city. I think it’s that kind of transversal situation that makes our industry really exciting. But to avoid the cliche and to do things that really captivate the essence of the brand in the context of the city. I think that would be the biggest questions for our industry right now.

SSR: Do you think social media has made your job harder?

AF: I wouldn’t think so. I think that the challenge is just that with social media everything gets judged kind of instantaneously, and a lot of the projects that I worked on take anything from four to eight years to realize. Like the Waldorf Astoria that I did in Bangkok took eight years and for sure I cannot foresee trends and I cannot predict how technology and politics and everything would have evolved. It’s kind of be true to yourself and just believe in what people appreciate. And I think the essence of hospitality, which ultimately comes down to comfort, will never change.

SSR: What is it that you most love about hospitality versus residential or retail?

AF: I think hospitality is a holistic experience. When you walk into a hotel, you’re immediately walking into a kind of full blown sonography, from the scent to the music, to the flowers, to the uniform that all the staff are wearing and then the interior and how the proportion of the spaces changes you as you walk in. There’s no better format of design than a hotel.

SSR: I Don’t disagree. That’s why we’re doing hospitality design. I know you said you’re 44 and still figuring some things out, but what has been your greatest lesson so far along the way?

AF: I think my biggest lesson is just learn to be persistent or that level of perseverance. I think that’s like the hardest thing because there’s just so much, so many changes in life on a constant basis and trends come in and go. I’m not the kind of person that just figures out, ‘Oh, this is the style that I’m going to do and this is what I’m going to do.’ I love to evolve, I love to respond, I love to just have an open mind to everything that I do. So to persevere, to believe in what you do. Obviously to observe everything that’s around you, but at the same time to persevere and to believe. I think that is easier said than done, but it’s very important.

SSR: Do you take your design home with you? Do you think your personal style and your design aesthetic go hand in hand?

AF: I would say so. I would say so. At home, I have a fairly simple environment, lots of space with objects that I have collected over the years. And that’s kind of like my lifestyle.

SSR: Is there any chance of ever going back to England or you just staying in Hong Kong.

AF: I think I was staying in Hong Kong for now. I’m quite happy there, but I do travel to England all the time.

SSR: What brought you back to Hong Kong?

AF: I had some opportunities in Asia, and my parents are there. So it’s just kind of one thing led to the other. But I guess now it doesn’t matter really where I am, it’s just where I travel to really.

SSR: Always on a plane.

AF: Not always, not always, but travel is always obviously a large part of it.

SSR: Well, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

AF: Thank you so much.

SSR: It’s been a great conversation.