Tara Bernerd

Stacy Shoemaker Rauen: So Hi, I’m here with Tara. Tara, thanks so much for joining us today. How are you?

Tara Bernerd: I’m very well, and it’s great to be with you.

SSR: Yes, it is. I wish I could do this in person, but we’ll take this route. All right, so let’s start at the beginning. Where did you grow up?

TB: Well, I was born in London in the UK, and I grew up, essentially, in London, but I spent so much of my life traveling. We spent huge proportions of time in Europe, traveled constantly to both the States and to Asia. So, a London girl who was just introduced to the world at a very early start.

SSR: Love it. And were you always creative, and did you always have a love for design looking back from an early age?

TB: I think absolutely. There was certainly a very artistic streak in me, whether that was what I reached out to wear or what I was drawing, I did a lot of the arts when I was at school. I remember, in my young teens and late teens, getting more and more interested. And there was a moment when, I remember, my father taking me to the Royal Academy for a big exhibition of Foster’s and Rogers’ and afterwards, to a lecture that Norman Forster gave because we knew him personally. I was able to meet, starstruck, Norman Foster later on. And he’d left such a huge impression on me. And I remember, then, always being so interested. Maybe that was the combination of all the traveling, being open to seeing hotels, different lifestyles and starting to be very interested in that kind of juxtaposition, where I saw all the architecture inside. So, I was always drawn to the materiality of architecture, but, I think, somewhere in me, those impressions were really forming in my teenage years.

SSR: And did your parents have an influence on this, too? You said you got to meet Foster. Was there creativity from your parents as well?

TB: Well, I think my mother would love to take claim and say she’s a tremendous artist, and she certainly has a very artistic streak. My father didn’t work on so much the artistic side, but was certainly a very creative and well considered developer. He was, therefore, in his days, very close to a lot of the great architects of today, starting them, altogether, as teams, building. And so, therefore, it was always around me, this understanding, maybe more from the development side of things, watching city landscapes literally change from the vision of these collaborations. So, therefore, yes, it was probably, unknown to me, imprinted a little bit, or quite a lot.

SSR: Amazing. Did he do mostly commercial buildings?

TB: He did all sorts of buildings, from city centers, rebuilding mixed use developments, hotels. Many, many things.

SSR: And so you go to high school. You left school at 16, right?

TB: Yes, I did, for my sins. You have to get to this right old age to feel comfortable with it again. But yes, I did. I left school at 16, which was not premeditated or planned for and not very well-received as well, at the time. And as a result of that, I wasn’t somebody who was, therefore, allowed to sit back and say, “Hey, I left school.” I was pretty much kicked out and I had to go and get a job. And from thereon in, I worked so hard. It was something that switched within me that was a responsibility. It was no longer going to class, handing in homework, I was out there. And I think that responsibility was one of the greatest feelings of being part of something. And from thereon, I did evolve in the jobs that I had a good interview with and I was given a job. But from there, that evolution of the work I was doing was certainly, what I would call, in ancient times, almost like doing a series of very serious apprenticeships.

So, if there’s any kids listening out there, at 16, who are feeling like walking out of school, don’t. Just don’t do that at home. I put in more hours than any one of my friends later on, as a result of that, because you didn’t get to study, you didn’t get all those trips. But those apprenticeships, some of them were very grueling, but they certainly allowed me to experience a lot of real-life work on projects, it introduced me to great people in the industry and in that time, I met people who remain mentors in my life. So, it was an unusual way to go about it, but I don’t have a bachelor of arts to wave at you, sadly.

SSR: No, but you’ve done quite well, so I think you’ve found the right path for you. So, what were some of these apprenticeships? I mean, what was your first job and how did that evolve? Can you share some of those early beginnings?

TB: Well, I was 16 years old when I went to work at Condé Nast for Vogue. I’m sure it gave me a little bit of polish, perhaps. I learned, very importantly, it was about people. Work is about people. It’s about communication, it’s about interaction. And back then, I was given a duster, a duster is an English word for cleaning. I was cleaning people’s desks, I was doing coffee runs, I was getting sandwiches for key editors, and I think you learn about the mechanics of business. So, it wasn’t necessarily that there was one or two things, but the culture of working was on me from a very formal office, coming across. From there, it led me into a project. I’d met, during my work at Vogue, Jane Mulvagh, who was a very prolific writer at the time, and she had said to me, “But you’re such a personality, have you ever thought about going into press and marketing?” And I took a job with one of the great dames of PR, at the time, and worked in her office. So, then, I started learning about brands and how the optics of a brand is so important.

So, Kimberley, I don’t know if I’m allowed to say, that you might be listening, but if Kimberley’s listening, there’s a huge part of that that then built up. And then I switched tack completely and, to everyone’s complete horror, went and interviewed in one of the biggest real estate firms in the U.K. to do commercial development. As I just shared, my father worked in that industry, so he was horrified at the time, and even more so when I actually was given the job. And I took all those artistic and creative drives and I put them to one side and I just worked in, literally, the front line of property negotiations, land-buying, developments, shop leases for a few years. Good few years.

SSR: But that probably helps you today, right? I mean, understanding the business of the designing.

TB: All of it’s like creating a tapestry, I suppose, that when you look back and you stand back at the end, you go, “My God, it actually worked together. Wow. How did that happen?” But, essentially, what I was doing was learning businesses. I was understanding very much so, which is why we are so attuned when we’re building, today, hotels, where they’re situated in the city center, what that means to that neighborhood or to that city, and also the value of the build, so we’re very understanding of our deliverables and the cost to build, the value engineering. I won’t run through all my experiences, but they started to collectively come together, I suppose, is the best way to put it. And I finally was able to merge, in a sense, all those experiences.

And I think a pivotal moment for me was when I came across an old building that was an old warehouse and raised some finance to recreate a lifestyle of how I envisioned the most knockout 4,000 square foot loft to be. But I still didn’t have enough money, so I got two plans going and hired the most fantastic architect to help me express my vision, and he was great. We got planning for the roof. I sold the roof space to someone who could build the apartment that we designed and with that, I built out a 4,500 square foot loft. And that won me awards, and that was the catalyst and I think I hadn’t even hit 21.

SSR: That’s amazing. Is that when you decided to go out on your own, or was there still another chapter before you started?

TB: There was still a little bit of learning. A little bit of learning. And then a little bit of YOO, as in not your dear self, Stacy, but YOO as in joining with John Hitchcox and Philippe Starck came years after that, which, again, I mean, you couldn’t ask for a better education, a better school, a better creative crew to be a part of. I was just so honored to be a part of it.

SSR: And how did that come about? I mean, did they find you? Did you find them? Were you interested in it? And tell us a little bit about your role there.

TB: A marvelous guy, who’s very well known in communications and marketing, who I was close to at the time, Matthew Freud, introduced me to John Hitchcox, and John interviewed me along with all the team at YOO and I was given a job. I had enough about me that they gave me a position to be partner. No one had titles back then, I remember everyone was called a partner, which was rather collaborative and very fair and quite exciting. But I didn’t really talk back then. I was so shy, I never said a word and all I did was listen, make notes and listen. And eventually, as the years go by, I really wanted to break out. It was a tremendous relationship there, but I wanted to…I had something inside and I can’t call it an instinct, it certainly wasn’t an instinct, but it was perhaps a drive to set up on my own, which was madness at the time, if I think back, but that’s what happened.

SSR: Amazing. And how long were you there?

TB: A few years.

SSR: Okay. And for those that don’t know YOO, Y-O-O, can you tell a little bit about what you guys were building there?

TB: Oh, YOO is about really harmonizing design into property developments and having, as we’ve now shared, growing up with that kind of world around me, building properties. And at YOO, when I was there, I had many different roles. I traveled the world to find new sites, from Hong Kong to Singapore, to look for projects where we would, essentially, be building residential towers. So it wasn’t one-off residences, like a private house, there was apartments or loft-like apartments. And we’d look to find collaborations with ownership across the world, but, equally, we were looking at then stylizing each apartment.

So, effectively, of course, under a banner of Starck, we created four different styles so that if you were coming in to buy an apartment in London, we’d say, “This is the look of star one.” Culture was one, for example, so that had stronger, bolder colors. And then with all the colors came a spec board of the materials. So, your home was basically a Starck design. So, we all worked very hard on what those styles would be.

So, yeah. And what it was doing, though, because anyone who’d worked in those arenas had seen for years, in the property markets, and certainly where I was at the time, in London, everyone said the following, “Location, location, location.” And what I’d learnt, back when I had achieved a tremendous understanding of lifestyle design and what it meant when I’d saw the loft, that someone who bought it just took the key and moved in with everything in it, every piece of furniture, every coffee table, the kitchen as it was, the bathroom’s done, you learnt very quickly, because it was in an offbeat area, that people had always looked at location, location, location. But what about if you challenged that it became location, location, design, and design mattered? And property developers were slowly, instead of standing on that more house builder type of attitude, were slowly opening their senses to think right, these young breed of property developers are creative developers. They’re putting design at the forefront of their offering.

And it was at that point that I probably recognized a gap in the market, and I also saw that there was a great emphasis on, what I would call today, interior architecture, where you had to understand the architecture, where you had to get to grips with the layouts and the elevations, the details of everything within a building as well as all the beautiful furniture and fabrics that came later. And it was at that moment that I just wanted to express myself more and do more with that. And I think there was maybe, which we see much less of today, it was either your architect or your decorator, and there was something that was evolving and I was part of that story, that narrative when it was evolving. It wasn’t why I left, there was many other reasons that come into trying to break out on your own, but those years were invaluable for me, and the friendships, as well, that remain today. I consider John Hitchcox a dear friend and a great visionnaire.

SSR: Yeah. So, what made you finally break out on your own? And looking back, what did you wish you knew then that you know now?

TB: Nothing.

SSR: Nothing?

TB: Nothing. I wouldn’t have done it. Sometimes, not ignorance is bliss, but sometimes, the bravery, the urge to do it. There were some personal things going on at home. But, needless to say, I went about finding my own office and getting sorted out to begin on my own. And the very first thing that I did was not write a business plan, but get a job, win a project.

SSR: And which project was that?

TB: Well, there were two projects that were pretty pivotal to that moment. I had a relationship, as I explained earlier, there were a few people who became great mentors to me and one of them was a man who, I’m very sorry to say, was a legend. I lost him earlier this year. One of my dearest friends, Tony Pidgley, who was a business idol. He had created the Berkeley Group, which was St George’s Homes, St Edward’s Homes, the Berkeley Homes, so the biggest land-buyers and builders in the U.K. And he was a great mentor. And I went to see him and said, “I’m thinking of setting up on my own,” and we talked a little bit. I’d seen him earlier in my career and we’d had some very fantastic moments and I shared a lot of visions on different projects with him, and he said, “I might have something for you,” and he awarded me a project called the Telephone Exchange in Crouch End.

It’s a long time ago, but all the people I worked with back then, I still have a relationship with today. We have a project going live at the moment, with St George’s Homes in the U.K. building a great loft project in Camden. And that was agreed before, I think, I had even found my new office.

SSR: Okay, so you get that first job and then you continue to grow your office. How did you end up in hospitality, or what drew you to hospitality?

TB: There was definitely a good few years under my belt, it wasn’t all immediate. There were other jobs that started to come in. In a very different vein, I’d also met Jay Jopling, and I’d met Jay through another very dear friend, who’s no longer with us, David Tang, who was a notorious, cultural, flamboyant, wise guy. Not wise guy as in you might say in the States, but a very wise man. And he’d introduced me to Jay Jopling, who is White Cube, was building the White Cube in Hoxton Square, and he met me and he offered me and awarded me the project of doing the interiors of that project and very much focusing in on his private offices. So, in terms of cool and status, and I was just over the moon to win something like that.

So you had, already, this variation, even though there were only, at the time, two or three jobs in the studio, you had this huge, old Telephone Exchange, big residential project in the heart of London and this just iconic gallery space being built. So, it allowed me, very early on, to not pigeonhole myself, perhaps, in one type of style of where we could express ourselves in design. Having said that, back then and quite early on, I then decided that I was going to just focus my work towards residential developments, galleries. The dream was hotels and maybe volume down on private clients.

SSR: Right. So for those that might not know, and I know you work on different disciplines, but how would you describe your style? What do you think clients come to you for?

TB: We have relationships. I believe in relationships, and I think that’s a huge part of what we do, and communication. And I think from the get-go, when we meet someone and there’s a good energy, there is such a feeling of aligned vision. So, I think that’s a very big part of why we are blessed to work with some incredible people and today, because, I guess, I’m a little bit of a workaholic, I consider those people, today, many of them, as dear friends as I do consider them great clients. So, that. And then in terms of our work, we’re really formulaic, we really stick to our deliverables, we’re really reliable. That responsibility, to me, never left me since I was younger and I take it very seriously.

Beyond that, I hope and believe they come to us for what we do, the bold, confident design that we bring to the table. People ask what’s our style? It’s not that we drift in styles, but if I’m walking down a snowy day in a village in the mountains, I’m going to dress very differently and my whole style will be so different if I have got a sarong around me and some beads and I’m in Mexico. So, that same language is happening with our designs. If we’re building an alpine private chalet, it’s going to have the same philosophies, we’re going to look at the layouts first, we’re going to understand the space planning, we’re going to go through every detail on that before we put in the finishes and the fabrics, so all the materiality, like the hard finishes and the soft finishes and the furniture. So, the journey we go through is, essentially, the same, but the outcome is very indigenous.

The thread that pulls them together is, I think, we are not with a set style, so things can vary. We like to pull on local materials, be it a local stone or artisan uses. We are not overly frilly, perhaps. We’re more handsome than we’re pretty. And our work is quite bold, quite confident. And so far, I look back at some of our older projects and 12, 14 years on, they stand the test of time because we’re very authentic about what we do.

SSR: Yeah, which is important. And very layered, which I love.

TB: Yeah, layered, that’s very true. I like layering things. When I dress, I like, what are they called? All the accessories.

SSR: Yeah. I know. I’m always in awe of your jewelry. Someday, I’m going to come play in your closet.

TB: You have to come play in my closet, and that’s very layered as well. But I feel that the layers are also the final touch. So, everything looks finished and then, to me, it looks bare, so then I start putting more. I don’t like cluttered, but I do like layers.

SSR: Yeah. No, it’s a fine line, but you guys do it very, very well. Okay, so you said hotels was the goal or the dream.

TB: A little bit, yeah.

SSR: A little bit. What was your first hospitality project?

TB: There were a few early ones. Sure, we were working on a huge project for Blackstone at the time, working on something called Center Parcs in the U.K., which led to doing some more work with Blackstones on some hotels they owned, called the Swissotel Group at the time. And after working with Blackstone, we’d started to get a real taste of the very strong practicalities of hospitality and hotel design. So, they weren’t necessarily out there in fantastic publications, like yours, Stacy, but they were really important, some of the business travel hotels. Center Parcs became a very, very big and important journey for us, and we were so honored to win that project.

And I think, really, one of the pivotal relationships that then came about later was meeting Jason Pomeranc and Aron Harilela. And Jason and Aaron had come to me and there were some wonderful sets of coincidences. Someone had been trying to introduce me to Jason for years, Aron had had dinner in a house and was trying to find out who was the designer, and I was asked to pitch to do the hotel, was then, the Sheraton in Belgravia. Turned out the house Aron had had dinner was mine, was my ex-husband at the time, and Jason and I were always going to get on like a house on fire. So, there was a couple of other designers pitching, all of whom absolutely intimidated me and I couldn’t even believe I was in the running. When we pitch, we don’t give options, we give one idea, and that idea, it was still the very DNA that we build today.

So, building The Hari, as it is now called because I won’t…it would be another podcast to explain my journey and my life with Jason and Aron. But Jason went on to build SIXTY Hotels and the Thompson was no longer under his watch and has gone onto other great paths. Jason, also, and Aron, decided to set up his own brand and named it The Hari. So, The Hari London remains, very much, still with the same vibe and attitude that we looked at so many years ago. So, that was a very important moment in going into that very luxury boutique, cool world. And then there was another very pivotal moment when I got a phone call from Four Seasons.

SSR: Right. Which has been a long collaborator.

TB: Yes, but that first phone call, I definitely did a jig around my office when I put the phone down and realized. And that first phone call was just to say, “This is Four Seasons, just letting you know you’re now on our Rolodex,” or whatever, at the time, and I was like, “Whoa.” And we won our first job with them six, seven years ago and we continue to work with them today. And my relationship with the ownership and those fantastic people at Four Seasons remains very much intact and very important to me.

SSR: Love it. Is there one project that has challenged you the most or has taught you something about yourself? I feel like, sometimes, you always learn more from those challenging projects than you do others, but I’m sure you learn something in every project. But is there one?

TB: I really do, and I don’t want to be that person that says no, I don’t. Every single project comes with its huge set of different people, different styles of working. And some are just more challenging than others, but others just take such a different route. I’m learning so much on every single project. It’s not to throw away that answer, but, for example, going into Japan and working in the culture and that incredible work that we did and just the marvelous people, the style of working, the honor, the timing, the deliverables was a massive learning curve. I’ve had just constant change in culture and therefore, cities. So, each time you’re picking up your chameleon light, I’m going to go green on this leaf and yellow on that, you get into who you’re working with.

I mean, another enormously important person in my life is Chris Norton, who was, essentially, vice president at Four Seasons, and he left to take on and run Equinox Hotels for both Harvey Spevak of Equinox, who is an incredible visionnaire, and Stephen Ross, who I just have the most enormous amount of respect for and, equally, for Ken Himmel, who are Related Group. And it was Chris who had left Four Seasons, who is now with Equinox Hotels, who introduced me to Ken Himmel at Related. And because of that introduction, and now I consider Ken a very dear friend, who I’m missing having martinis with in New York. But we were invited to pitch for the Equinox Hotel, Grand Avenue, which is downtown LA, opposite the Disney Concert Hall by Frank Gehry and, indeed, this project is being built by Frank Gehry himself. So I was, yet again, with all these years of experience under my belt, absolutely astounded to even be invited for such a prestige project.

And with that project comes other, I wouldn’t say challenges, adventures. There’s a huge amount of people on those projects. There is a lot of opinions, there is great vision from so many and there is a new brand being unraveled. So, those are exciting challenges in a project, so each one is so different. If I go back to Aron, who we’re building The Hari Hong Kong with, very often, it’s from one Zoom call with 30 people, it’s just me and him on his project. So, everything is about adapting and learning the sensibilities and, actually, the culture of each ownership. So, I think we’re always learning, but in that time, I guess we’ve learnt a few tricks ourselves.

SSR: Can you talk about the Equinox brand? How are you evolving that brand? And how are you looking at fitness and wellbeing, holistically? Because I think that’s super exciting and very timely, for lack of a better word, right now, especially coming out of this pandemic, what wellness means, as people travel and from not just a Peloton bike in the room, but really looking at wellness for the entire experience.

TB: With that, I can’t say that we are evolving it, I’d say that I feel very honored and really enjoy being part of that team.

SSR: Got it.

TB: We’re a part of a big team there. And just as we are U.S.-centric on our call, I really think what they have built and achieved in New York, in Hudson Yard, is incredible, though, it was not our work at all. We came along much later. I think they have really given such a landmark to that area with the hotel. The hotel, I’ve stayed in. In fact, my last trip before COVID was in New York, in February, staying at the Equinox Hotel and it was fantastic. They talk about health being the new wealth and I think that emphasis and therefore, how it’s related to the club and their spa facilities, it’s just incredible

When we started on downtown LA, it was ahead of New York opening. So at no point were we trying to make copycat designs, so, in a sense, LA has a personality of its own, but very, very aligned with all the philosophies of what that brand is bringing to the table. And therefore, we really are very collective, opinions are very collaborative. We work so much with Harvey, with Chris, with Stephen Ross, with Ken Himmel, and then with all the people around the food and beverage and also, spa areas that we’re doing as well as all the rooms and suites. So, I think, ultimately, it has to have confidence in its design. It doesn’t sit as overly feminine or overly masculine, it’s seductive in the materials that we can use, in a sense. It is appealing to the design-centric and has a slightly edgy feel to it, and that combined with the hotel offering makes it, really, a unique and exciting new arrival on the hotel scene to be part of.

SSR: I can’t wait to see what you’ve done with it when it opens.

TB: Well, we’ve got all the sample rugs in our office at the moment and, obviously, sample rugs in anyone’s home are a big deal enough, but to have several of them for the lobby arrival, the bars, and we’re sitting there going through thread counts, we finished with the model room. So, this has really kept going throughout COVID, our work has not stopped and I am just really longing for the day to be there with all those incredible people I’ve met during this work and process, and from everyone on that team to be, hopefully, soon to come, standing there, opening that hotel with them.

SSR: Speaking of openings, the Hari Hong Kong is set to open in December, right?

TB: Yeah, next month.

SSR: Oh, perfect.

TB: No problem. Yeah.

SSR: No problem.

TB: Another lockdown launch. Oh, you want to hear my most challenging work?

SSR: Sure.

TB: It’s some of the working in lockdown. One is launches, and two is model rooms.

SSR: Yeah.

TB: And if anyone from Equinox or Related are listening, it is with no disrespect, but reviewing a model room on a camera or a photographer’s pictures is probably the most challenging thing I have faced. That is quite hard. That is a situation where you want to be live, you want to be standing in a room, you want to be snagging it, you want to be touching and feeling the materials. So that was certainly interesting. And I think, going on from that, we are checking live cameras, at The Hari. We are styling it too, so when we do all these fabulous bookshelves and we say it’s not just books, it’s layered, we’re layering it. We’re saying, “Put that there. Put that there.” We’re sending, almost, paint by numbers of where things go.

We’ve done this with Osaka this year, we launched the hotel there, Zentis. We launched a villa in Ibiza. And now we’re about to try a whole hotel in Hong Kong of 200 rooms and suites, and I’m absolutely gutted not to be there. Actually, I shouldn’t be in my office in London right now, I’m due to be in Hong Kong. I can’t go at the moment, but we are cracking on regardless, and the hotel will open and I think it’s just going to be incredible. The good news is it means when I do get to Hong Kong, I shall stay there.

SSR: Exactly. But once it all is finished, then that’s when you start looking around and seeing what else is needed, right? So that must be some of the hard part right now is not being able to see it as it physically is about to open.

TB: I’d love to say it was that magic, and if it is the home, there’s nothing better than saying, “Oh, that console table, it just needs another beautiful vase. I didn’t realize it needed the height.” I’m a lunatic. When I move into my house, it’s finished. Okay? And I’m a bit like that with hotels. I overthink. Sometimes, I think three or four things at once, which is a little bit difficult for those close to me. But I have overthought every shelf. We know where we want everything to go. So, whether that makes me very organized or a nightmare control freak or a bit of both, most of the things should be in place. I mean, there’s, often, a chair has been put exactly where it should be on plan, that’s near a fireplace and I tilt it slightly, or I have a certain way I like, which is, believe it or not, although I know all about interior architecture and the layouts and the optimization of space, I’m the first to move a cushion, as well, if it’s in the wrong space. Or the wrong one’s gone somewhere, it’s on that diagonal, hexagon side. I like it square. And so, yeah, I have been seen to fuss around hotels I’ve designed. Thankfully, my clients either haven’t seen me do that or appreciate it.

SSR: Love it. Is there one part of the process that you love the most?

TB: Oh. You can’t ever underestimate the excitement, still, of putting together all your ideas and you feel so vulnerable and, as I said, you come with one idea. And recently, we were awarded this project, so it was very, well two projects. We’ve worked just one recently in the last few months. One of them is a Rosewood Hotel in Sardinia. In the Costa Smeralda in Italy, and putting together ideas and we’ve got pictures of this and that, now they’re going on and your first thoughts of how it should look, room layouts and the whole palettes, and that is really exciting and terrifying because you don’t know you’re going to win it. Obviously, when you win it, it’s thrilling. That’s when it all really begins. That’s when a tsunami of work starts coming through the floodgates and you’re having to learn not just your ownership and your client, but build relationships with all the other consultants. And there’s a huge amount that goes on in those years in the middle. So if you think about marketing something, we talk about winning something and then we talk about opening it, but the years that go on.

So, I think there’s a tremendous time in that, which is seeing people develop, encouraging people on my own teams, internally, getting them through the tougher times, meeting deadlines, getting through each presentation and getting sign-offs. And there is nothing quite like drawing a sketch or putting together a pitch with pictures and then standing in it and seeing the owner smile and hand you a glass of champagne, saying, “Well done.” That is, like, ah! That feeling is…you can’t describe it because this place didn’t exist. But that does not come lightly. So, there’s lots of years in the middle where there’s a lot of other value adds and it’s about what you go through as a team to even get to that very special place, if we can. And every time, I just think we’ve got to get there. I think the more I do, the more terrified and humble I feel about it all.

SSR: And talking about your team, how big is your firm now?

TB: Well, we’re very, very accustomed to travel. I have a team of 35, based in our headquarters in the U.K., but a very multinational team. So we have, from all over the world, the designers and architects and partners are not, I mean, there’s very few English in the office. We certainly have Australia, New Zealand, a lot of Italians, Spanish, lot from Hong Kong, Swedish. We’ve got a great mix. And I set the company up on my own 19 years ago, but then about eight years ago, I did a little reshuffle and I took my top tier and then created a partnership, so there are partners within the business. We’re a little bit like knights at the round table and we all discuss and share decisions.

And from there, there is a little bit of a family tree, if you like, because it’s needed. So, we have a great associate director and also, a super director who helps us with all the operations side of things. And we have some very strong project leads. We have senior designers, designers, some super talented junior designers, a whole CGI department, and everyone knows their arena. The other side of what we do is I’m very proud to be able to identify talent and also, to do our upmost. I feel responsible and obligated and want to nurture and encourage everyone in that team.

SSR: Yeah. How do you stay inspired, or where you find inspiration and how do you continue to keep your team inspired, especially through the last nine months?

TB: I hope I keep my team inspired, I really do. I really love them very much, and I consider them my family. And we’ve done all sorts of things during this really, in some ways, horrific time and also, there’s been learning times in it. And there are, of course, silver linings, but it’s not what anyone would’ve ideally wished for. Every week, I used to meet the whole office. Obviously, I couldn’t do it on one Zoom, so it was split up into various Zoom meetings to talk about nothing but work, about what we cooked on the weekends, movies we’d seen. I think staying in touch with everyone was really important. I think we did our fair share of Zoom pub quizzes and parties, but that runs out after a while. So, we still do them, I’m just not sure if everyone else is sick to death of them. But we try and collectively stay together.

I think a lot of people, including myself, have really been saved by work at this time. It’s been our savior. So when you think you’re going stir crazy in your room, you’re suddenly in Sardinia or Vienna, learning a city, traveling by Google Earth, seeing shops, going to neighborhoods, put together a pitch. So it’s been, actually, in some ways, amazing on a creative kind of bonding note, as well, for all of us. And my inspirations have always come from such a variety of places. I think, without doubt, travel, seeing new cities, going to different retail stores, incredible designers and the retail. If I think of Tokyo, what you see there, or you walk down any of the top high streets and you see the work that’s been done for the interiors of some of these stores, like Celine.

You travel the world, you then get to go and look at more local artisans and you start to pull together all these flavors of everywhere. Equally, I can sit and watch movies and be led by a sort of aesthetic. I love that fantasy color of Tim Burton, and I take it from the films. I like so much, that nonchalant, how the peacock blue’s sat with those amber cognacs of Rive Gauche and Yves Saint Laurent. The palettes of some of those times. So, I’d say it comes from a really strong combination of everything.

SSR: Do you miss travel? Because I miss travel.

TB: I miss it. Of course, I miss it. Although, in some ways, the way I was traveling before this happened was maybe a little unsustainable. I mean, it was really volume up and pretty intense. But I do like to travel. However long the flight is, however groggy you can feel, get off the plane and you’re driving and some cities, I have certain drivers, so I feel more at home, that I know. There’s a guy who has always driven for me in New York, Victor. Victor comes to collect me and I left a suitcase behind so it’s easier, and it’s in the back of the escalade and I’m going into New York and New York lights up and I’m just there. Boom. And I feel the same thing in so many projects, I feel the same thing when I get into Hong Kong or I’m driving in a Jeep through the jungle to get to the hotel project in Playa del Carmen, on the beach in Mexico for Belmond. So, I just think there’s such an excitement in me, still. That’s what it is. It’s probably got some bad side. I’m still very, maybe, childish, actually. And that childish side of me keeps it as if it’s a first time. I’m absolutely excited to get there.

SSR: Yeah. No, I completely agree. I mean, is there any place that you would still love to work in or type of project you would like to do?

TB: Such a hard question. I mean, right now, if I was to answer very honestly, I’m just so grateful that we’re still here. And I mean that very seriously. We’re talking and it’s wonderful to be asked and share my story or some of my past, but I have to say for so many, and really including us, this has been a tough year. Pretty hairy moments. And right now, I’m just so grateful to every one of my clients, those with long-term vision, the fact that we’ve hung on in there and we have work. So, maybe, two years ago, I would’ve said yeah, I’d like to be in Mexico City, which I’d still like to be in, but I’m just very grateful. We’re not quite through it yet, I want to get to the other side to travel and continue traveling. I love working in the US, I’m really excited about the projects in LA. We have another hotel in Hollywood as well, that’s opening, the Thompson Hollywood as well as the big Equinox Hotel coming. I would like to do more in the States. And New York always thrills me.

I love the resorts. I feel really in touch with doing the resorts, which is, again, a really variation. And wouldn’t it be fun for one of my great international clients to take me back to London town? Got a fabulous hotel there. So, who knows? Who knows? But just keep on going, at the moment, is how I feel.

SSR: And you mentioned so much of your mentors and just the amazing people you’ve been able to work with. We always end this podcast with the title of it, so what has or has been your greatest lesson learned over the years? Or best piece of advice? And sometimes, they roll in together.

TB: The best piece of advice I’ve had, actually, in many, many years is from my father. Don’t take no for an answer. And I remember, many, many years ago, in Italy, it was his 60^th. He’d invited a number of friends to go around the bay, so from the port on little boats, a very beautiful spot you could only get to by boat. And the sea started getting all those white horses, the dark gray clouds came in, the thunder was coming and everyone said, “Mr. Bernerd, we can’t. We can’t do this. You can’t go out on the boats.” And he said, “Don’t take no for an answer.” He nearly killed half our guests, we all got round the bay, the boats were going up and down. In fact, Richard Rogers was with us at the time and his wife, Ruthie, are holding onto each other’s hands. And we got round the bay, we climbed up these old wooden steps, this beautiful spot under a monastery and the sun came out. And literally, of course, sun and rain, you get a rainbow and he looked at me and he said, “Now, remember, don’t take no for an answer.”

So, it’s not that I don’t listen, but I always find that it’s helped me when there’s a big problem. A big problem, be it with the office, maybe it’s someone’s personal staff, maybe it’s a big manufacturer who won’t deliver something for a project, maybe it’s something that…it’s not when a client says no, it’s more so always look for a solution is what I’ve derived from that, is don’t be put off at the first. It’s not really a no, isn’t it? It’s don’t be put off at the first thing that stops you. Keep going. Find the solution. I think that’s something that sticks with me.

SSR: Awesome. I think that’s the perfect place to stop, so thank you so much for being with us here today. Always love catching up with you.

TB: I adore it, and I can’t wait to see you. I really, truly can’t. I hope to be back really soon in the city. We’ll definitely go to SIXTY, okay? Got a date.

SSR: Yes, we will go. Yes, it is a date.