Tristan du Plessis

Stacy Shoemaker Rauen: Hi, I’m here with Tristan. Tristan, thanks so much for joining me today. How are you?

Tristan du Plessis: I’m so good. Thanks. And you? I’m really excited to be on this call with you.

SSR: I’m excited to have you-

TdP: All the way from South Africa.

SSR: I know. Thanks for doing it. So did you grow up in South Africa?

TdP: Yes, I did. I grew up in Johannesburg for most of my life, and I’ve recently transplanted myself to Cape Town, which is absolutely amazing. Yeah, and I’m based here as much as I possibly can be.

SSR: Yeah, besides probably being in a plane.

TdP: Yes.

SSR: Were you a creative kid? Was there always a love for design from an early age?

TdP: Yeah, there was. I always wanted to make things. When I was 13, I wanted to make music, I wanted to try learn how to produce music, and then it was creating cool T-shirts. And then luckily, I eventually found a direction that actually worked for me, but yeah, I’ve always been a lover of making things.

SSR: Is your family creative? Did you have any early influences or was it just ingrained in you?

TdP: I think my family is somewhat creative, more in the business world, but it’s just something that was always there inside me, I guess.

SSR: Yeah. Did you go to school for design then?

TdP: I actually didn’t, so I am untrained. I’m self-taught, which is quite interesting. And it’s not very usual for, South Africa is a country where pretty much everyone is educated in their field, and I’m probably the least educated in my field in South Africa.

SSR: Well, it’s worked out for you.

TdP: Yeah, it has.

SSR: So did you have early jobs then? How did you get started? How did you find your path?

TdP: So long story short, I knew someone who was a designer and I did six months of marketing degree, which I hated. So I dropped out and I was looking for the next thing. I thought architecture and design was very interesting. And I went for an internship, a week-long internship, and I helped them out and they asked me to stay another week and another week and another week and another week. And three years later, I was a partner at the company that I was interning at.

SSR: Oh, wow.

TdP: And the rest is history.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: I never got to have my student days.

SSR: Well, I guess you learned as you did. Right?

TdP: Yeah.

SSR: So were there some early projects that you worked on that helped cement your knowledge base or taught you some things that have stuck with you?

TdP: Yes, absolutely. So we designed a lot of nightclubs throughout the country and it taught me so much, from the design aspect, but especially in the client relations because we were dealing with nightclub owners who were intimidating characters when I was 19, 20, 21, 22. And I think it definitely broke some barriers down in terms of my interactions with clients. And I don’t have that intimidation or that nervousness around any client now because I started off with, at least in my world, when I was 20 years old, the scariest figure was my client. So it definitely helped mold my client relations for sure.

SSR: Yeah, that’s awesome. And I think nightclubs are a good starting base because you get to do them quickly. Right? I mean, hotel projects, they take years where nightclubs, I mean, they can still take some time but I don’t know, there’s more of like a build design. Yeah.

TdP: Yeah, it’s a quick gratification, quick route to gratification. You sit down, you come up with the concepts, and then three months later, it has to open, no matter what. So along with that stress, you get to see this thing as a physical space within three months, which was very exciting.

SSR: Yeah. And so it’s interesting that you started right off in hospitality. Had you traveled as a kid or had any early hospitality experiences that might have helped you along the way?

TdP: No. So I hadn’t traveled a lot as a kid, but I had huge aspirations when it came to traveling. So I was always looking at cool destinations and resorts and hotels that I couldn’t really afford to get to but it was always there, it was part of my daydreams, is travel and picture myself in these hospitality spaces. So it’s pretty amazing that it’s come full circle and I get to create these places that I used to dream of going to.

SSR: Right. Okay. So you worked at this firm. How long were you there? And has that transformed into your firm or did you leave and now, start your own?

TdP: No. So I was there for five years.

SSR: Okay.

TdP: I was a partner for two. And then in 2015, I decided to start my own firm. I just felt that there was a different direction that I wanted to go in and it’s the best decision I’ve ever made in my life.

SSR: Yeah. What made you take that leap of faith? It’s easier said than done for some, so what was it that gave you the courage to do it?

TdP: It was really difficult. I think there’s a lot of fear of failure when you’re thinking of jumping and starting your own thing. But eventually, with the partners that I had and myself being a minority partner in their business, is our values started to drift apart in terms of what we wanted to offer as a business. So I felt that I had to start my own thing.

SSR: Right.

TdP: And the nervousness quickly dissipated when I had response from the market. So I had initially planned, I had a business plan. I thought it’d have three projects that year and that would make me happy. I started with my first year and I had 12 projects.

SSR: Wow.

TdP: And it never stopped to this day. So I’ve just been-

SSR: That’s cool.

TdP: It’s grown exponentially from there and it hasn’t stopped. Yeah.

SSR: That’s amazing. So what were some of your first projects in 2015? I mean, you had 12 of them, but what was maybe one that you learned the most from, or was the most memorable?

TdP: So literally, my first project was a project called Hell’s Kitchen.

SSR: Okay.

TdP: In an area called Melville in Johannesburg, which is not particularly great, like a downtown area. And we did it like a rock and roll dive bar. I had complete freedom to do whatever I wanted. I was paid about a $2,000 fee. So I felt that because I was getting paid so little, they needed to at least give me the freedom to do what I wanted with this space, and it turned out to be such a fun project. It was really well received. And even it started my first foray into international recognition. And I think that was quite exciting, is that the first project I did was getting picked up by design blogs and magazines in the UK and all over the world. It was really fun.

SSR: Yeah. What do you think about it that people picked up? Was it dramatic?

TdP: It was dramatic, and I think there’s a raw authenticity.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: Based on the background I’ve just told you, I wasn’t designing it for any other reason just that I wanted to have fun and I wanted it to be cool. And I pictured my friends and everyone I knew partying in this space. So I think that that really came across in the design. And maybe that’s what’s unique about my style, is that I really try to focus in on the project and not necessarily use it as a shrine to my design skillset but just get the most out of that space for that particular market.

SSR: Yeah, for sure. And so when you started, did you have a team or was it just you? And then how has that grown over the last seven years?

TdP: So when I first started, it was just me sitting at a friend’s boardroom in his office. And by the end of that year, I had four employees. And right now, we’ve got 12 based in Johannesburg, Cape Town. And then I’ve got a pilot’s office in London as well, so it’s grown quite big. I don’t feel like I want to go past more than 15 designers in my staff.

SSR: Right.

TdP: I still feel it’s important to have a personal touch or a personal interaction with each and every project that comes through the doors.

SSR: Yeah. And you’ve done a lot of really cool restaurant projects since then. And I know Finn and then the HD awards finalist, Cole. Am I saying that right? Cole?

TdP: Yeah.

SSR: Oh, great. And how do you approach these restaurants? Have you kept that same thing since Hell’s Kitchen, just really trying to create an immersive experience? Is there a style that you have at all? Are you just really thinking about the individual project?

TdP: So I try not to impede own personal style but somehow, naturally, you flow in that direction and the end result does have some kind of a trademark to it, but I like to explore layering and I want every finish texture piece of furniture, light fitting to tell a story. So I think it carries across quite well in pictures, but when you’re in the space, it’s each space I try to create a sense of discovery for the guests or for the patrons to discover these tactile elements or visual elements or optical illusions. I think it’s really important, at least to me, is to create experience out of something that is traditionally 2D.

SSR: Got it. And how do you work with the owners too? Because design only goes so far. Right? So what else… We talk a lot about how designers can also play a role in helping create that overall where form meets function. Right? So do you work with them too, to make sure flow… Restaurants, they have to work, right? So how do you work closely with the owners to make sure that not only is the design great, but the feeling, which has a lot, I think, to do with the function feels good too.

TdP: So we’re always involved right from the very beginning of the project, from initial ideation. And depending on the client, we have input on that ideation. I think my long term clients that are built up specifically in Dubai, give me a bit of free license to develop the concept with them from the beginning. So I may have this end picture in my mind, and we developed this concept that works towards that. And those particular projects have been very successful. In terms of practical flow, likely, we have done a vast amounts of restaurants as case studies. So that flow obviously comes first, but now, that’s quite an organic process is figuring out the restaurant flow and then adding the layers onto that is where we have fun in the project.

SSR: Yeah. And you’ve expanded into hotels as well. Which was your first hotel?

TdP: So I had two hotels that were my first hotel.

SSR: Okay. They’re at the same time.

TdP: I had one week prior, I signed on Chapter Roma in Italy, which was my first hotel. And then I got a call from the owners in Gorgeous George in Cape Town and they asked me if I do hotels and I said, “Funny enough, I’m actually busy with one in Italy at the moment”, which sounded pretty good on the phone.

SSR: Exactly.

TdP: So it was basically a few weeks apart, I got my first two hotels to design.

SSR: That’s amazing.

TdP: So yeah, I really jumped into the deep end, but it was an amazing process and I definitely learned a lot from both of those. They were boutique hotels. So one was 32 rooms, the other just down to 40. So it was a nice start. I just couldn’t believe the response those hotels got in the market, especially Gorgeous George being my first hotel to open, it really gained some attention. It was really interesting to see that and made me excited for the hotel world. And also led me to believe that I had something to offer in the hospitality space.

SSR: Yeah. For your first hotel, how did you approach it? How did you want to think differently? Well, first hotel projects, I should say, how did you want to approach it differently than maybe others hadn’t?

TdP: So I think that’s the beauty of doing your first project. I had experience in the design world and there was no set standard procedure on how to design a hotel. I just understood who this hotel was for, what it needed to say to the market. For Gorgeous George, I wanted it to feel Capetonian, I wanted the experience to feel endemic to the space that it was. So the story started telling itself. And I think every hotel should have that. So as much as form follows function, the narrative led the design through that project. And I think that’s what made it so successful and made it so fun. Although at that time is very stressful because I wanted each element to tell the guests something and give the guests a little smile on their face or a drop of the shoulders of relaxation as they stepped in to each different space. So it was an amazing project. It was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. I definitely paid my school fees on it. And I’m actually funny enough on finding the bigger 250-bedroom hotels easier than that first 32-bedroom hotel.

SSR: Yeah. Well, I mean, it’s your first one, right? So you want people to react and set the tone for you’re next. So there’s always a lot of pressure on your first. I feel like.

TdP: Agreed.

SSR: Yeah. And I think too, I mean, Hell’s Kitchen was the first one that you went out on your own, and I think maybe then too, was there pressure for yourself as your own on that one? I mean, it’s super cool, right? It’s like a speak easy doors and has meat cleavers on the wall, I mean, you did go for it.

TdP: You can definitely see my younger self in that, but at that current time, it was perfect and really cool. And yeah, I put myself into that project. You can see the photography on the walls. I think that was a more fun project. There was zero expectations, whereas, Gorgeous George, there was a little bit of expectation on my shoulders.

SSR: Yeah. But I think, I mean, it’s gorgeous, it’s masculine yet it has moments of airiness and pretty, I mean, you’re right. There’s so many different spaces in there. Even the event space is very cool and layered with your rugs, and art seems to be a major player in many of your spaces. Is that true?

TdP: Yeah, always. I mean, I think arts is an important faculty in our local culture. So it’s something that I always wanted to bring across. And I think in Gorgeous George, we tried to immerse arts into everything. So we engage local artists to paint a mural in every single room we designed rugs and sculptures with the local environment. So I think what was interesting with Gorgeous George is I’m from Johannesburg and the project was in Cape Town. It’s blasphemous for a Joburger to be doing a Capetonian hotel. And the way I overcame that was by embracing the local designers and working with them on this project. So I took everyone with me on this journey and it made everyone feel like they were a part of it, that I wasn’t just putting my stamp as just Andy, the designer. It was a collaborative process. That’s probably my biggest learning from gorgeous George is that it doesn’t all have to be about me as the sole designer. It’s about bringing people on as collaborators and kind of growing symbiotic relationships within a project.

SSR: Yeah. I think that really creates that sense of place that everyone is trying to create. Right?

TdP: Yeah. Organically.

SSR: Exactly. Authentically, I guess, too. Yeah. And then, so you were working at Gorgeous George and then Chapter Roma is very different, right? Italian capital, it’s in Rome, the Italian capital. What did you want to create there and how were you working on them? It must have been interesting to be working on them at the same time.

TdP: Yeah. I was learning from the one and then taking the learnings the next week and bending them into to the other project. Chapter Roma was a fun project. It was a very budget-conscious project. And I think if you weigh up the budget compared to the end result, it’s pretty spectacular. I’m not going to talk about the numbers in front of everyone, but it was amazing what we got away with. And we squeezed so much out of that budget. The client was also great. The brief was to create something that felt very unique within Rome. Rome’s a very traditional city and he wanted a hotel that felt completely untraditional. So instead of refined and opulent, he wanted rustic and raw and edgy. And I think that was quite an easy groove for me to fit into.

SSR: I think we talk a lot or have been talking a lot to people lately about that good design doesn’t have to be expensive. Right? And it’s like figuring out where to spend the right money and how to spend it?

TdP: Agreed. I mean, it is nice to spend money.

SSR: Well, yes.

TdP: Yeah. It gives us a lot more leverage to do fun things, but no, it doesn’t always have to cost money. As an example, Fyn, in Cape Town, that costs us $200,000 end to end, to create a fine dining restaurant that’s in one of the top 100 restaurants in the world and feels like a fine dining experience. We used a lot of recycled materials. It doesn’t necessarily have to be expensive, although it is a lot more fun to work with budget. So any potential clients who are listening to this podcast, don’t be shy to be generous with the budget.

SSR: Yeah. How did working on these two hotels change your outlook on design and where you wanted your firm to go? It’s hard sometimes to get that first project. Right? So getting it, getting them under your belt, how did it change your perspective?

TdP: Well, it definitely grew my company in terms of its skillset. And I think because of all the detail that we added into a project like Gorgeous George, it made us ready for bigger projects. We put a lot of effort into each of those details and whether you’re doing it for 32 rooms or 250 rooms, the difference is not that great.

SSR: Right.

TdP: And I think it’s easier to start off with a small boutique, highly designed hotel and then move it onto more corporate branded hotels than the other way around. So I’m really grateful that I started off with those kind of projects first.

SSR: Right.

TdP: And it’s set the tone for all the other projects. I’ve been pleasantly surprised with what we’ve been able to achieve with the bigger hotel projects, which haven’t opened yet. And I wish I could tell you what they were, but I can’t.

SSR: Can’t do that, but you are working on two that you can talk about, right? One in Abu Dhabi and one in Jeddah?

TdP: Yeah. I can talk about them, conceptually.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: So I’m busy with a design lead luxury hotel over 200 bedrooms in Abu Dhabi with Accor and Ennismore group.

SSR: Nice.

TdP: And then I’m also working on a very luxurious hotel in Jeddah. Again, I wish I could tell you the brand name. It’s funny enough, it’s classic luxury, which you wouldn’t really expect from my studio, but we are bringing a unique flavor to this hotel, which I think is going to be quite interesting and it’s translating quite well. So on the horizon, I’ve got two mega projects that should be opening in 2023.

SSR: That’s exciting. So how are you flipping the switch on traditional luxury or classic luxury?

TdP: Again, I think it’s a really cool space to fit into. So we’re starting with the purpose first, is layering this warm, comfortable, rich feeling space. And what we are doing from our studio is adding in the experience, adding in these elements, when you walk in, you say, wow and you speak to your friends about it. And that journey through that experience that it’s not just luxurious, it’s telling you a story too.

So I was fortunate enough with Gorgeous George, that it was really well received internationally. We won a regional award from Middle East and Africa for hotel of the year, best restoration, best suite, best visual identity. At the awards, it was a bit embarrassing. There were 15 awards. And I was sitting next to literally my heroes, I mean, I was sitting next to Iain from David Collins Studio, and I happened to starstruck by just sitting next to him. I thought I maybe win one award if I was lucky. I happened to win 30% of the awards. My arms were full of the little trophies. And I met one of the shakes at that evening, who gave me a tiny little project as a taster. And that went quite well. And one thing led to another and I’ve started this blossoming relationship with Accor, where I find to be a really exciting group, especially right now with all the new acquisitions.

SSR: Yeah. We’re giving Sheron our hotelier of the year this year for our HD awards. So we’re super excited. We’re big fans of what they’re doing. That’s exciting.

TdP: That’s pretty amazing. And it’s-

SSR: Sorry, go ahead.

TdP: They’ve taken all the SBE properties as well. I think they’re going to have quite an exciting run.

SSR: Yeah, it’s a great time-

TdP: I’m betting on Accor.

SSR: Yep. For sure. I’m excited to see what they do with Delano, too. So going back a bit, why do you think it’s always people… I was talking to someone the other day, like I wish somebody would give me a chance in a hotel. Why do you think Chapter Roma, that was the first one you got, right? What was it, do you think, that they saw in you or how did you not convince them, but for those listening that are hoping to get a hotel project, what do you think it was about your presentation, about your direction, or how did you get that first one? I guess is the question.

TdP: So I think what my studio or myself, what I do differently is I try to put myself in the head space of my client. We get so stuck on the beauty of the project, what it needs to look like, what magazine it’s going to be and hopefully, but it’s a commercial venture. So that’s the head space that they think, is how is this design going to impact the market? Who is the ideal guest that’s going to be attracted by this design? And I think speaking to my clients on that kind of level gives them a sense of relief. It also shows that I’m understanding of where they’re coming from, and I’m not fighting with them in terms of trying to spend the most budget or only focusing on design, but really, truly extrapolating the design and explaining to them how this is going to benefit their business model and give them longevity in the hotel’s life span.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: So these are the things that I learned from the beginning of my career, dealing with the scary nightclub owners. It taught me a lot in, it’s not just the design, it’s how do you leverage a commercial benefit from that design and how does your experience benefit the longevity of that establishment? So I think that’s what helped me get that across the line. And then the design aesthetic followed that presentation.

SSR: Got it. Is there one part of the process that you like the most? Is it the beginning? Is it creating that story? Is it seeing it come to life? Is it a mixture of of all of them?

TdP: I’m pretty sure that’s most common answer, but seeing it come to life is always the best.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: Like that last week pre-opening when everyone’s running around and the kitchen’s starting to turn on the ovens and testing the food and the music comes on, it feels like Christmas. So handover week for me, it feels like Christmas. And luckily, I get to have that four or five times a year.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: It’s like, it’s an unbeatable experience for me. It’s better than going to the beach in Maldives for a week.

SSR: Do you watch people in your spaces? Do you go back and especially in the restaurants that you design or the hotels, do you watch how people use what you’ve created?

TdP: Absolutely. I think designers have such a critical eye. It was quite hard to do that initially, but as I felt like I delivered a solid design or a full experience, I enjoyed to see people in those spaces. I was proud to see people using them and laughing and having drinks and having these social experiences in spaces where we spent months and years toiling over designs and stepping over bricks and cements and concretes. It’s just, it’s such a beautiful part of what we do is we get to manifest these spaces that other people get to have moments in. Life happens inside these spaces and memories are created. People meet their loved ones or people going to have a beautiful dinner or lunch with their family. I think that the end result are people enjoying the space, is truly what I live for in my career.

SSR: Is that what you love so much about hospitality? Is that exact reason that people get to live and enjoy and create memories there?

TdP: Absolutely. I think there’s an importance to social interaction in humanity. It’s something that we’ve always been drawn towards. And I think if COVID taught us anything, it taught us that we have this innate desire to socialize. It puts pressure on a designer’s shoulder because I chose, it’s an integral part to our society to create these beautiful experiences. And if it takes us blood, sweat, and tears to create an environment that just puts a smile on someone’s face for 10 seconds when they walk in, it’s all worth it. Life is short and life is made up of these beautiful moments. And if we can make those moments a bit more beautiful, even if it’s for a dinner, a lunch or a weekend away, we’re all privileged to do it.

SSR: Yeah. What was the COVID experience like for you in South Africa? I mean, and what has the last two years taught you as a business person, a leader of a company?

TdP: It’s ironic I think, specifically with the situation in South Africa. We were really badly hit with a whole lot of travel restrictions, some warranted, some not so warranted. So we were physically isolated so much from the world, but I realized that we always had been geographically so far away. But it broke down communication barriers where everyone learns how to do Zoom calls and it became the new normal. So I actually picked up international clients more so in lockdown than ever before, because whether I was in the State next to you or halfway across the world, we’d still be meeting on the same platform.

SSR: Right.

TdP: The conversations would be the same. So it was interesting where I think clients may have had an apprehension about using me because communication would be difficult. It might take long to get a turnaround time or come to a meeting. Everyone was in the same position.

SSR: Right.

TdP: So it was pretty amazing to see that grow and it’s definitely something that I took advantage of. I reached out to clients all over the world that I would not usually have taken on. So it was terrible and a social aspect. And I think on our lives, but in terms of business, being in an isolated “city” in the world, it definitely broke down those barriers of communication. And I see benefit from it still, to this day. I think if we were both in New York, we’d be doing this on Zoom as well.

SSR: Probably. I know.

TdP: Yeah.

SSR: It’s funny now, people are like, “Oh, you want to get together?” I’m like, “Ah” like it’s still, I think it’s very true. That’s awesome. Is there a way that you stay inspired? I mean, your spaces are so layered and so creative. Where do you look for inspiration? Is it through travel? What would-

TdP: It’s through travel. I think hospitality is truly a passion of mine, and I travel as much as I possibly can. I see as many restaurants, hotels. I’m that annoying person that does five hotels in five days when I go to a new city.

SSR: Awesome.

TdP: But I love it like that. That is the experience for me, is seeing what other people do. So the inspiration is always there. And it’s not necessarily inspiration on, “Oh, I can see that trend is popping up. Let’s use that trend on a project” but more like, “Wow, that was a creative response to that problem. How can I be more creative in my next response?” So I really like living through other designers eyes and seeing how they take things on. I think the latest project I saw was the new [inaudible 00:32:39] suites by studio Allegra. It’s so well done that gave me inspiration battery charge for the next few years. So you’re seeing those type of projects that they’re really humbling, and they’re showing me how far I can go with design and they always keep me on my toes and always keep me inspired.

SSR: You said at that awards program, you’re sitting next to people that you have admired. As a young designer starting out, were there people, designers that you were drawn to as somebody you respected or admired their work early on?

TdP: Yeah, absolutely. And funny enough, it’s not necessarily the style that I’m replicating or the style that I would personally like, like David Collins or Philippe Starck or Marcel Wonders but there are those people that I’ve always looked up to. And even on a smaller scale, there’s an architect called Dieter Vander Velpen who does amazing stuff out of Belgium, who I really looked up to. And now, we are friends on Instagram. So it’s strange for me to be in the same room with these kind of people now, coming from South Africa and being relatively young or not so much anymore, but when I started traveling internationally, I definitely was. And I’d say, that’s also a source of inspiration is that as I get more recognized globally, I’m the new guy in the room and the room’s just become more and more interesting. So yeah, I’m really privileged that my journey has taken me there.

SSR: Yeah, for sure. Have you ever had a challenge being young? I mean, you started your firm at what, 25? Like talking to clients, I don’t know, was that ever a hindrance or do you think that was an opportunity?

TdP: I think my career has built up with my age and maturity where when I was 25 and I was doing a bar for 21 to 30 year olds, I was the perfect person for it.

TdP: So I think when I first started, when I was 25, 26, 27, I think clients chose me because I was their target market. A young traveler was exactly who Gorgeous George was trying to attract and Chapter Roma was trying to attract. So I used it to my benefit and I think clients saw value in that as well. And I think as I start maturing, I started attracting those projects that I would be the ideal guest for. So hopefully, that carries ongoing. And I think it hasn’t been a hindrance. If anything, I was so lucky to start young because I was able to put my heart and soul to these projects so I wasn’t trying to get into the head space with anyone else. It was for me and my contemporaries.

SSR: Yeah. And how do you hire? Do you try to have a diverse kind of group, or what do you look for in a team member for you?

TdP: So I think I had some bad experiences in previous firms when I was an employee and I tried to curate my staff so that there’s a really good company culture that is supportive and friendly and open to people coming up with new ideas in a safe space.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: I think that’s quite important. I think that’s also why I’ve kept my studio relatively small, is so that I can manage the right personalities within that studio. I think designers is born from a happy environment, an open environment, an understanding environment, and that’s something that I really try to keep within my studio. So I think the personality is really important. And then obviously, we can build that skill. Someone has the right attitude and aspirations and emotional intelligence, I think that outweighs just standard skillsets.

SSR: What’s one thing people might not know about you?

TdP: This is a terrible question. How can you ask this question?

SSR: It’s such a good question. Come on.

TdP: Something that people might not know about me is even though I’m traveling the world and designing these amazing spaces, one of my favorite things to do, truly, is walk my dogs. When I’m home in Cape Town, that is my ultimate experience.

SSR: Yeah. How many dogs do you have?

TdP: I’ve got two golden retrievers.

SSR: Aww. So cute.

TdP: Yeah.

SSR: What else do you do in your downtime, if you have any, besides going to five hotels in one trip?

TdP: Downtime?

SSR: Yeah. Is there any?

TdP: Right now, I think at 34 years old, I’m in the career building phase of my life. There’s not much downtime, to be honest. In Cape Town, I do have these beautiful experiences in nature where we can go for walks and hikes and walking my dogs, but beyond that, my business life and personal life is so immersed. Yeah, that’s kind of my focus for right now.

SSR: You said as you’ve gotten older, how do you think your style has evolved, your company has evolved over the last seven years?

TdP: I think there’s a constant evolution. I think design is talent and creativity, but it’s also applied knowledge. So the more you learn, the more you have to offer. And that’s why I think I’m not rushing my career forward, and I think it’s growing along with me year by year because we’re quite lucky, within this profession, that the older you get, the more experience you get, the more you have to offer

SSR: Right.

TdP: I see most designers coming to their stride in their 40s because you’ve got that wealth of experience to allocate to solutions. So I think that applied knowledge is a really important part that people often overlook.

SSR:Was there one project I know we’ve talked about Gorgeous George and Chapter Roma and Hell’s Kitchen, but was there another project that was either your most challenging or something that you learned the most from? I know you learned something from every project, but is there one other that you would point to as a great takeaway?

TdP: Truly, Gorgeous George was the most difficult project I’ve ever done, to this day and hopefully, ever. I think-

SSR: What made it so difficult? Was it just all the different aspects of it?

TdP: So firstly, it wasn’t a new build. It was two different buildings, one Victorian, one Edwardian stitched together. So physically, the technical design was arduous. Nothing was straight. Every room was different. There were different ceiling heights, services running through everywhere. It was not fun until right at the very end. We learned to hell of a lot, but I think the biggest learning I had is when I did my first project outside of South Africa and I saw how differently people worked and it allowed me to be a lot more creative, where if you’re playing in a field where there are more craftsmen, people that have higher skill levels, it just pushed me to be more creative. So I think that’s within like the last two, three years where my design was allowed to mature beyond the restraints of local skillsets that I’ve been stuck with.

SSR: Yeah. How do you see South African hospitality changing and evolving over the last few years?

TdP: So the one thing that people don’t understand is South Africa has got really cool stuff.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: I think ironically, when I come back home and I do a small project chair, it’s quite competitive. People dig deep and there’s a lot of creativity here.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: So I definitely see that spilling over. I mean, there was one foray, a brand called Nando’s, which kind of  took South African design to the masses and was so well received in the UK. And they have really cool design shops. And in South Africa, it’s kind of like run of the mill, like a nice, fast, casual restaurant. So people are creative in South Africa. And there’s a lot to be said for South Africa design in a new contemporary world. I think there are makers who are doing amazing things here. And I think that’s why I’ll always have a studio in Cape Town because we’ve got a connection to these creative makers and artists and artisans that we can take to the world in which we do take to the world.

SSR: Right. Looking at all your different travels, has there been one hospitality experience that changed you or is the most memorable?

TdP: Yes, there was. I think it was the hospitality experience before I properly went into design. I had a visa issue in China and I got stuck in Hong Kong when I was 20 years old, with I think $1,000 in my pockets.

SSR: No.

TdP: And I just Googled cool hotels Hong Kong, and The W, which had just opened was on the top of that list. And I just thought, “Screw it. I’m checking in here for the night at 20 years old.” And I only had cash to check in with. It was cool, all good. And that was my first luxury hotel experience. And the way it made me feel, it made me feel so cool and sophisticated. And at 20 years old in that environment, it just made me feel so different. It changed the way that I looked at a hospitality experience and the emotional response that you can have to it. It was amazing. I don’t know if you remember The W Hotel Hong Kong.

SSR: Yep.

TdP: Back then, it’s still pretty cool now but back then, it was an amazing hotel project.

SSR: Yeah. I think I stayed there not too long after you, like 2004 or 2005 and it was still-

TdP: Yeah, roundabout that day. It was really cool.

SSR: Yeah, for sure. Wait, did you get home? What happened? Did you check in one night?

TdP: I made it out, luckily, because if it was two nights, that my money would’ve been gone for that.

SSR: Yeah, exactly.

TdP: Yeah.

SSR: Yeah. Is there one thing you want to design that you haven’t designed yet?

TdP: Yes. I think a luxury resort is something that I really want to design. I’m sure it will happen when the time is right. But I believe there is something to be said within that space. And I’d like to be given the opportunity to do something different with that type of hotel.

SSR: Yeah. I would love to see your spin on it. How do you see hospitality evolving after everything we’ve gone through the last two years and hopefully, finally coming out on the other side? How do you see it changing? What are you paying attention to?

TdP: Well, I think in the broader spectrum, there’s going to be a lot of shedding of things that we didn’t need. I mean, if you look at a typical business travelers hotel, I don’t think they are going to be as necessary in the future because in previous years, I might have had to travel to New York to have this conversation with you. And we’re both doing it from the comfort of your office and my home, which puts more focus on why do we want to travel? Why do we want to be in a hotel?

And we, as designers and hoteliers, have got to give them that reason because home is a comfortable space. And even dining at home is so easy. There’s Uber Eats, there’s all of these different options. And people still want to go out. It’s not about the food, it’s not about the dinner, it’s about the experience. So we’ve got to package that experience and make things special so people want to come to different hotels or different restaurants. So I think it’s a bit more pressure on us but it definitely shows us that what we do is important.

SSR: Yeah. Do you translate a lot of your design into your home?

TdP: No, not at all. No. So right now, in between homes, I’ve just sold up in Joburg and I’m looking for one here, but I like my homes to be very minimal, very quiet, very muted because I’m living with color and texture and marbles and brass and copper that when I come home, I want it to be very minimal. Our office as well is just a minimal, soft, warm space in which we can come up with all of these ideas. And so ironically, it’s a response to the design I do. And not so much leading on from the design that I do.

SSR: That’s so interesting. I think you have a real knack in your team, obviously, to layer all these different materials in such a seamless way. Right? That they don’t fight each other, but really create this really dynamic experience. I’m curious about your process. Is there a lot of moving things around, rethinking… I’m just curious, how do you guys get all these materials to mix solemnly?

TdP: You know what I think there is? I think in our office, we’ve got a general rule, is when we’re on site and the boxes arrive, are we going to be excited about unpacking those boxes? So whether it’s the tile or the countertop or the chair or the side plates or the chop sticks or whatever it is, will we be excited to unpack those boxes?

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: So I think that’s what we apply to every single finish. And I think that translates well. And obviously, we have a personality of the restaurant that these finishes belong to and you can feel when you try things out, whether they’re right or wrong. But I also feel that even if sometimes you get it wrong but the individual product is really good on its own, it’ll still stand alongside the rest of the design. I think where people get it wrong is where they don’t think, or they say, “Oh, let’s just use a generic tile or we concentrate somewhere else.” I think people can see that, even if it’s subconsciously. I think it’s just thought put into each finish and every detail translates to what you call the seamless design.

SSR: Yeah. Awesome. Well, I hate to end our conversation but for the sake of time, we always end the podcast with the title of the podcast. So what has been your greatest lesson or lessons learned along the way?

TdP: Again, a really easy question to answer. I’ve got two. I think the one that I’ve learned along the way and I had to really figure out is when you find an authentic voice, people start to listen.

SSR: Yeah.

TdP: And I think that it’s so easy to replicate, and you see a lot of repetition and following of trends, which is cool. And it’s a means to an end but I find when you can dig deep from authentic point of view, that’s when you start to move forward and that’s when people start to recognize what you’re doing. And the other one, based on my initial studio’s name is truly think big. As corny as that sounds, the world can be yours if you put enough hard work and effort behind it. And I always say like, I’m so glad that I didn’t achieve my dreams because my dreams are so much smaller in this space that I’m playing in now. So those are my two greatest lessons learned.

SSR: Love it. Well, thank you for spending the last 45 minutes with me. Such a pleasure. And can’t wait to see all that you do because I feel like you’re just getting started. So I’m excited to see what’s next.

TdP: Thank you so much for having me and I’ll always keep you updated.